Scottish teachers strikes

[museumum]

How have other Scots found the teachers strikes?
I’m seeing a lot of stress from English parents I know on Fb as well as on mn but it seems to me in my bit of Scotland parents have said “fair dos” to the teachers and just got in with things/arrangements quietly.

I’m not sure this is necessarily good for the teachers cause….

interested to hear from other Scots around the country….?

And the disdain and entitlement mentioned are clear..

I have NHS staff in my family and was with 2 physiotherapist friends at the weekend who I discussed this all with. So I’m very aware of what is being offered.

You now say ‘primarily’ about delivering lessons. Whereas before you seem perturbed that staff in on strike days might be doing admin. And yet you also seems to want people to go in on strike days, so it’s very confusing.

Again, maybe redirect your anger toward the government and lobby for different conditions in certain sectors of the nhs that you feel are unjust. Or become a teacher 🤷‍♀️.

It seems you want your children to have a good education, and so, I would presume, would want teaching to be an inviting and motivating vocation. But, it seems, only in terms that you think are acceptable.

Except it’s less than other public sector workers..

There is a typo there - I am sure what you actually meant to write is that it is up to over £10,000 MORE than nurses with similar qualifications and post graduate experience. And also a bigger pay rise percentage wise than other public sector workers.

Though of course as you are not just “delivering lessons” you do have greater responsibility than an intensive care nurse trying to ensure critically ill patients stay alive.

Literacy and numeracy rates since the snp have been in are awful,

And yet you want a pay rise? Perhaps pay should be linked to performance?

I have NHS staff in my family and was with 2 physiotherapist friends at the weekend who I discussed this all with. So I’m very aware of what is being offered

You obviously aren’t - so this should help you www.gov.scot/publications/nhs-staff-pay-offer/ Remember to look at the equivalent pay grades (remembering what is required to get there in comparison to teaching). Disdain isn’t the word I would use to describe my thoughts.

You seem easily confused. What I want is for teachers who are not striking to deliver lessons - in the same way that NHS staff who are not striking deliver health care - and not to go in to do some admin whilst taking their salary. Solutions to how this teaching could have been delivered were suggested upthread - but instead my son and many thousands of pupils lost valuable teaching time right before his exams. Now there’s big panic because the teachers are trying to work out how to fit everything in between now and the exams starting - it’s almost as if they don’t link the two.

DD says she was told today by teachers that they won't do easter revision classes at her school 'as part of the strike protest' and even if the deal is accepted, they still might not do it or have enough time to organise it. Even more pissed off now. I'm in a deprived area, kids really need the extra help. I'm fortunate I can afford (some) tutors for DD but loads can't.

This is because of the SNP overhaul of the curriculum and their refusal to implement any kind of tracked assessment strategies because of their drive to be similar to Scandinavian countries but with far less investment in many areas of education, including class sizes etc.

Anyway, this thread seems determined to believe that teachers being forced to exercise right to strike is enough to condemn them. And the absolute obsession with comparing any nhs role with teaching is equally confounding.

Hopefully the deal is accepted and you can move onto the twitter feeds or somewhere to knock and demean the people you also expect to challenge, educate and motivate your children. ✌🏾

Perhaps you should have been more concerned about challenging, educating and motivating them than disrupting their education whilst striking for an unrealistic pay deal. ✌🏾

You were not forced to harm our children in order to blackmail government into paying you disproportionately more than other public sector workers.

I got an marking update email from the SQA the other day that suggested there are only vacancies in very few (generally niche) subjects. I've a friend who's on a waiting list for English marking. People also seem very keen to take on extra marking so I'd say it'll be fine.

marking of SQA exams papers is a voluntary activity

It is a paid role not a voluntary one.

I have lost all sympathy with striking teachers and will save my sympathy for the children

Doesn't the SQA marking give secondary teachers a means to earn more, but primary teachers don't have the same opportunities to add to their income do they?

Not just primary teachers; bin men, cleaners, care staff, librarians, dental nurses, road repair crews, council switchboard operators and dinner ladies don’t have the same opportunity to add to their income by SQA marking do they?

I agree , for my kids sake , I hope this ( over and above what I think is fair in the current climate btw ) pay offer the teachers are getting is accepted and their education can continue uninterrupted.

I am one of these much vilified teachers you are all talking about right now giving myself a few days off last week. We loose £108 a day (after tax) every day we stand on the picket line. It’s not a nice wee days holiday, we had to resort to this as no one listened when our pay award was due in April 2022, when cost of living is over 10%, (I think I saw that our pay has been eroded by over 30%) in the past 15 years there were years we got nothing or 1%) now I know there are other public sector workers in the same boat too.

As well as our pay bring eroded what worried me more is how much we are expected to do with so little. Budgets are being cut and cut, there is no money for resources. Schools are being amalgamated, children put into smaller classrooms, classroom assistant numbers, who are so valuable, have been slashed, the schools are filthy as the cleaning hours have been cut, as a teacher I regularly clean my class and use inset days to deep clean as that’s the only time it ever gets done. We have children who should be in ASN schools in mainstream schools, ASN schools are bursting at the seams. Inclusion is great in theory but doesn’t work if it’s not properly funded. We have child poverty teachers feeding children and in some cases buying extra clothing for them. Teachers being hurt at school is at an all time high (I myself have permanent marks on my body). Teacher retention is at an all time low, CofE is not fit for purpose, we are not Getting it Right for Every Child. Teachers are getting more and more initiatives and therefore work piled on them they are at breaking point but all the public see is they finish at 3pm and get long holidays.

Giving you a pay rise isn't going to change the workload, lack of resources, lack of provision etc, in fact it will make it worse because funding will instead go into your pay packet. So teachers will continue complaining about 'dirty schools, lack of teaching assistants etc' without realizing they are part of the reason. It just goes round in circles and with regards to what the public see, we see our kids suffering!

Exactly @MountedbyHarryWindsor increasing teachers’s pay won’t improve any of those issues. I absolutely support additional funding for schools to enable capital projects to be funded and so on, but all that unrealistic pay deals do is take yet more money away from those areas.

As for losing pay - my understanding is that no-one forced you to strike and that plenty of your colleagues went to work (although they didn’t actually deliver lessons - so the pupils continued to suffer).

We loose £108 a day (after tax) every day we stand on the picket line.

You didn’t lose it as you didn’t earn it. I don’t get £108 a day for not teaching either.

Budgets are being cut and cut, there is no money for resources. Schools are being amalgamated, children put into smaller classrooms, classroom assistant numbers, who are so valuable, have been slashed, the schools are filthy as the cleaning hours have been cut,

Those budgets are now going to be cut even more to pay for your pay rise. Where did you think the money would come from?

I am sure these striking teachers would welcome inflation-matching council tax rises.

I wouldn't worry about any more of these pesky teachers going on strike as there won't be many in the future- particularly STEM subjects. 70% of chemistry teacher training places are not filled.

If only there was a way to encourage more entrants into the profession....

www.tes.com/magazine/news/secondary/how-many-teacher-education-places-went-unfilled-your-subject

We loose £108 a day (after tax) every day we stand on the picket line. It’s not a nice wee days holiday,

But that's just not true. The teachers who were taking part in the targeted action in the key constituencies were losing precisely NOTHING because the EIS was paying their salaries for the day. So yes, they were pitching up at 8.30, standing on the picket line for an hour - 90 minutes, then pissing off home for a FULLY PAID day off. And you can't see why parents aren't supporting that?

Yes I can see the logic in this. We don’t need to pay so much to attract teachers to drama, music, arts etc as graduates in these areas are generally paid much less so we should reduce teachers pay in those subjects?

I presume that is what you mean?

Everyone I know who teaches arts subjects was not skilled enough to get a job the insanely competitive arts world or wanted more security/more social hours. Many of those who I know studied languages did so with the express purpose of going into teaching. I don’t know anyone who studied chemistry who did so with the purpose of going into teaching. Teachers pay is already higher than that for chemists so it is not pay that is the issue. They just prefer being chemists. If you want to attract chemistry graduates to teaching then you have to attract people interested in teaching to chemistry degrees.

I agree , I also would fully support additional funding for extra Nurture classes and TA’ s etc , as the inclusion policy is really detrimental to every other child in the mainstream class.
I have experienced a hellish last year of DC primary school which was marred with explosive, abusive , uncontrollable children. That teachers had to call for to be removed from class after tipping tables etc , hitting other children etc.
Paying that one class teacher more doesn’t make it any better for the teacher or the other children.
However funding alternative classes / support groups / schools for disruptive / extra needs children would help.

So I fully support education spending , but on the areas that are needed , not inflating already excellent salaries.

Non teachers can't read those articles because we aren't teachers so can't / won't register or pay.

And my DD who wanted to be a teacher, is reconsidering because her teachers are complaining all the time. She's not sympathetic, far from it, she's upset and pissed off her studies are affected and easter revision classes cancelled. So increasing the pay won't make any difference to encouraging people to apply, the strikes will.