Buying an Edinburgh tenement

[meringue33]

Hello, we are considering buying a flat in Edinburgh, probably in the Old Town or New Town and I was hoping for some advice about the pros and cons of a tenement flat.

Please be gentle but we were thinking of using it primarily as a second home at the moment as we live down south. I am Scottish however, have family in Scotland and would love to move back full time eventually. Parents are getting older and as we spend a lot of time in the area it would be nice to have our own place rather than always imposing our whole household on them.

Would the neighbours hate us if we used it as a second home and rented it out as a holiday let when we were not using it? Is it permitted to do that within most leasehold agreements?

Are the service charges expensive on that type of flat and do they tend to stay stable over time? Do the older properties tend to be costly to maintain?

Any guidance very gratefully appreciated.

The neighbours probably would hate you if you let it out as a holiday let. It's a huge problem in Edinburgh and makes people's lives a misery.

You don't normally have service charges in tenements, and they don't tend to be leasehold.

I wouldn't say they tend to be more expensive to maintain. I guess it's costly getting specialists to either use loads of scaffolding or rope access to deal with stonework at roof height. But it's often split between all the flats. You'll be relying on there being owner occupiers in the stair with the wit to deal with all that if you're basically an absentee landlord.

Also meant to say the council are cracking down on short term lets.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/must-read/airbnb-say-edinburgh-crackdown-on-short-term-lets-will-have-little-effect-3345778

Air bnb not popular in Edinburgh.

My ds has just argot a mortgage for a flat in Edinburgh. He told us that as part of the mortgage, he wasn’t allowed to rent it out.

Some flats he looked at are factored, others are not.

Factor costs vary the ones he are looking at are about £40 a month. Older Tenement flats don’t have this fee.

www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/13264/should-edinburgh-be-a-short-term-let-control-area-

Leasehold isn't a thing in Scottish property law, I don't think. So it's your property and you can do what you want with it, typically. Depending where it is you might have a number of rented flats already in the stair. Although some of them are very beautiful and expensive, there's also a lot of mid-range flats that are commonly rented out to students/younger people, so a bit of a fluid/transient population anyway. I'm not sure I'd worry too much about the neighbours.

Generally you'll share cost of stair repairs and sometimes only the top floor flats are responsible for the roof. Most tenements are already pretty old and they've stayed upright this long so I wouldn't worry a huge amount about ongoing maintenance, depending on survey results of course.

Ok so having owned two in my past (now in a house in edinburgh) there’s no such thing as leasehold and freehold in Scotland.
Some tenement “stairs” (the group of goats that make one building) employ a management company and many don’t. So there may be no service charge but owners sort communal issues as that arise. That’s one reason that absent landlords are not loved by owner occupiers. If you are going to rent it out you must get a good man agent company or your neighbours will hate you. Many owner occupiers hate airbnb owners and I do not blame them. Imagine living and working somewhere where you permanently share a building with people in holiday/party mode.

Sorry for autocorrect crazy - flats not goats!!!

Thanks! Interesting mix of views, and really useful to know about the short term let control.
What does factored mean?

Would the neighbours hate us if we used it as a second home and rented it out as a holiday let when we were not using it? Is it permitted to do that within most leasehold agreements?

People will tell you it will be hated but in reality we are used to it. Keys might be a problem if you aren't there to mange it as key safes are not popular and being banned. You might need someone trusted to do that for you

Most Scottish tenements are freehold, not leasehold. So leasehold agreements won't be a problem.

Generally you have a factoring company which will manage communal repairs and maintenance. Factors vary wildly depending on factoring company and property, so definitely worth considering as an on-going cost.

I agree with PP that neighbours would probably not be overly thrilled with short term lets going on next door. I also think it is becoming more regulated as an industry.

I have recently moved out of a tenement and I didn't find upkeep too expensive. They are so common that we never had difficulty finding trades with plenty of experience working in them.

Overall I'm a huge fan, and if I was going to buy a flat it'd be another tenement.

Factored: managed, basically. Someone is paid by all the flats to deal with communal admin/issues.

Air bnb owners are not popular in Edinburgh at all. The guests are often noisy, fill up all the bins ( who recycles when you're on holiday!) noisy cleaners and then the whole thing starts again. It's very wearing for the endless new neighbours to stay up late drinking and being noisily sociable when you have work the next day.

I grew up in a tenement in Glasgow and my daughter now lives in one. I also own a flat in Glasgow which is let longterm.
Leasehold is really not a "thing" in Scotland although it does exist.

Most tenement property is factored/managed but the quality of Factors is very variable. I posted a few months back asking for feedback on factors in Glasgow and the replies included some comments about experiences in Edinburgh. Sorry I don't know how to link but if you search Scotsnet for Factors you'll probably find it.

This website is useful underoneroof.scot/

Building factors

Not sure this is the thread @readsalotgirl63 s referring to, but talks about factors and what’s involved.

Also found this website whilst looking.

under one roof

Also be aware of the Additional Dwelling Supplemental (ADS) Tax that you'll need to pay if you're buying another home when you already own one - on top of LBTT (usual property tax).

And BTL interest rates are higher than a standard mortgage, plus you must have at least 25% deposit & it's rental income must be 125% of the monthly mortgage payment.

The Edinburgh market is pretty hot just now & properties generally go for way over the home report value (sometimes 25-40%) so you have to factor that in too as mortgage lenders will only lend on the home report value.

All of these factors make BTL quite unattractive these days.

Thanks everyone- so useful

The thread linked to is not the one I started looking for recommendations / opinions on factors - will see if I can find it later and link

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4225206-Property-Factors-Glasgow

One thing that I don't think anyone had mentioned yet is that tenements can be cold and/or hard and expensive to heat.
I live in one and love the space and the architecture, but I don't know if I'd buy one again.
It's hard to add any additional insulation.
If you're higher up, you might benefit from downstairs' heat. If you're on the top floor, you'll bear the brunt of roof issues (practically - cost should be split).

Instead of holiday lets or Airbnb you could do home swaps instead. I live in a tied house because of my work, and took out a mortgage for a small flat where I stay a couple of nights a week. Mortgage doesn’t let me rent it out, so I joined a Home Exchange website which is either straightforward swaps with other homeowners, primary or secondary homes, or swaps for guest points instead of money. I can then use guest points to stay in someone else’s home, so save money on holidays.

Home swappers are more likely to treat your flat as their own because they also are allowing others to stay in their property, if you see what I mean. So can be less disruptive for neighbours.

Leasehold’s not a thing.

Yes, your neighbours will hate you.

If it’s listed or in a conservation area, and it almost certainly will be if in the Old or New Town, yes it will be more expensive to maintain.

Would the neighbours hate us if we used it as a second home and rented it out as a holiday let when we were not using it?

Yes. Second homes should be banned in Edinburgh too. It's hard enough for people who live and work here all the time to get on the property ladder.

Thanks everyone for the advice & the honesty ;)

Let us know how you get on