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Forwomenscotland Please email your MSPs about GRA

43 replies

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 10/11/2021 12:45

Please, if you live in Scotland, get the message to your MSPs.

forwomenscotland.eaction.org.uk/MSP

Follow the link and it is all very easy. If you can share far and wide, that would be great.

OP posts:
2319inprogress · 12/11/2021 21:33

Please can everyone pass the FWS link on to friends & family? We really need the MSPs to understand this will not be swept under the table!

I'm so angry that these insulated MSPs who want to let men into changing rooms with my daughters.

Tobogganist · 15/11/2021 09:53

Response from SNP list Msp:

Thank you for taking the time to write to me on this important issue. I am aware of the content of the consultations on the proposed bill which you have outlined. I will explain my reasoning below for supporting these measures:

•	Reduction in time spent living in acquired gender: if you believe that someone should have a GRC before they can live in an acquired gender and access spaces as that gender, it seems contradictory to demand they do that for longer before being legally recognised. I support simplifying this process.
◦	GRCs themselves do not grant the holder access to any spaces – the spaces you refer to are already used by trans people. It is very unlikely you will be asked to produce a birth certificate in order to access the places you mention.
•	Reducing the age: we recognise 16-year-olds as adults in most other areas of rights, such as voting, so I am not in principle opposed to allowing them to seek help if they are trans. The waiting period and length of the process are also very long.
•	Removing the need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria: I do not believe that a diagnosis of gender dysphoria should be required for someone to receive a GRC. The strides made in the ICD-11 by removing being transgender as a mental health condition are positive and I consider this reform to the GRA to simply be a case of the law catching up with advancements in medical understanding.

As you will likely know, both the Scottish National Party and the Scottish Green Party committed in their 2021 election manifestos to reform the Gender Recognition Act, allowing our trans community greater and simpler access to change the gender marker on their birth certificates. I was elected on the SNP manifesto and I firmly agree with that key article – this reform is necessary and long overdue.

In line with the agreement between our parties, this legislation will likely be introduced early in this parliamentary session. I believe that the people of Scotland have already expressed their resounding assent to these plans by offering a majority of their vote to parties that support reform.

I appreciate that there remain concerns about this legislation, and I am always willing to engage in the spirit of good faith with those who hold a differing position on this from myself.

As a disabled woman and a feminist, however, it is clear to me that securing the human rights of another marginalised group takes nothing from my own.

I hope this has explained my position. Please do not hesitate to get in touch if there is anything else I can help with as your regional MSP.

Kind regards,

Emma

Emma Roddick MSP
Highlands & Islands | A’ Ghàidhealtachd agus na h-Eileanan
Scottish National Party (SNP) | She/Her
[email protected]t_

2319inprogress · 16/11/2021 14:05

I was just coming to ask if anyone had actually got a response from a SNP MSP as mine is quite silent Hmm so thanks for that Tobogganist interesting to read their basic premise is that there are & should be no single sex spaces - wonder how that will play out with the wider electorate?

WouldBeGood · 16/11/2021 15:36

Good afternoon

Many thanks for email.

With regard to your query on definition of Male and Female, this can be found via the following link;
Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: consultation - gov.scot (www.gov.scot)

However I have included the relevant part below for ease;

“The Equality Act 2010
General
5.09. As outlined in Chapter 2, the Equality Act 2010 (“the 2010 Act”) is key equality legislation. It is generally a reserved matter for the UK Government and cannot be amended by the Scottish Parliament. A key aim of the 2010 Act is to prevent discrimination against people who belong to one of the nine protected characteristics.[46] The nine protected characteristics include “sex” and “gender reassignment”.
5.10. For “sex” section 11 of the 2010 Act provides—

“In relation to the protected characteristic of sex—

(a) a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a man or to a woman.”

5.11. In section 212(1) of the 2010 Act the definition of “woman” is “means a female of any age” and the definition of “man” is “means a male of any age”. Therefore, under the 2010 Act, the protected characteristic of sex includes a reference to a female (of any age) and a reference to a male (of any age).”

As for your second query regarding safe spaces, in general, a ‘safe space’ is a formal or informal place where a group (in this case women) can feel emotionally and physically safe. It is a place which should be free from trauma, violence, harassment, and fear of violence and harassment, one where the beneficiary group can feel safe and able to express themselves without fear of harm. The term ‘safe spaces’ isn’t used in the Equality Act 2010, which instead refers to “separate services”, including “single sex services” in the explanatory notes. The Gender Recognition Act (GRA) respects the Equality Act 2010 and as such will continue to protect ‘safe spaces’, ‘separate services’ or ‘single sex services.’

The recent GRA consultation acknowledged that the Equality Act 2010 allows “organisations to apply exemptions from their services on the grounds of ‘proportionate risk’ to these services. Risks that women and children’s safety might be compromised, for example, could continue to be addressed using Equality Act exemption provisions, where these organisations consider it necessary.” (7.24)

The Scottish Government strongly supports the single sex exceptions in the 2010 Equality Act which allow for trans people to be excluded when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. This means that single sex services, like domestic abuse refuges or rape counselling, are protected - as are single sex employment rights in relation to such services and the delivery of health care services, such as intimate examinations.

The draft Bill on which Scot Gov consulted did not make any changes to the Equality Act 2010. That consultation was clear that further guidance from the UK Government on the operation of these exceptions could be helpful.

The SG is clear that all organisations need to take account the Equality Act when any changes in policy are being considered. All rights—those of women and trans people—must be protected. This includes the protection of women’s safe spaces.

I hope the above information is helpful to you,

Best wishes,

Charlene

To: McPake C (Charlene)
Subject: Re: Please stand up for Women and Children

CAUTION: This e-mail originated from outside of The Scottish Parliament. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

Thank you for your reply.

Can you tell me what the definition of “woman” will be for protected spaces, and reassure me that it will not include men, whatever their id?

On 11 Nov 2021, at 17:17, McPake C (Charlene) wrote:

Dear

Many thanks for your email on this important issue.

The Scottish Government has committed to working with trans people, women, equality groups, legal and human rights experts to identify the best and most effective way to improve and simplify the process by which a trans person can obtain legal recognition, so that the trauma associated with that process is reduced. They remain committed to making necessary changes to the Gender Recognition Act that arise from this work at the earliest opportunity, while ensuring these changes do not affect the rights or protections that women currently have under the Equality Act.

The Scottish Government are clear that all organisations need to take account of the Equality Act when any changes in policy are being considered. All rights - those of women and trans people - must be protected. This includes the protection of women’s safe spaces. Guidance is being developed to make sure that policy makers and service providers understand better how to ensure that the rights of women and trans people can be collectively realised.

The Scottish Government strongly supports the single sex exceptions in the 2010 Equality Act which allow for trans people to be excluded when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. This means that single sex services, like domestic abuse refuges or rape counselling, are protected. As are single sex employment rights in relation to such services and the delivery of health care services, such as intimate examinations.

The draft Bill, which underwent public consultation on the 17th December 2019, did not make any changes to the Equality Act 2010. All rights—those of women and trans people—must be protected. This includes the protection of women’s safe spaces. The Government’s support for trans rights does not impact on or conflict with the continued strong commitment to advance equality for women and to protect women’s rights.

Furthermore, the draft Bill did not propose gender recognition for people under 16. The consultation was based on whether the minimum age for applying for legal gender recognition should be reduced from 18 to 16. Under current guidance for schools, if a young person under 16 years old wants to change their name or recorded sex formally on their school record, “it is recommended that consent is obtained from all of those with parental responsibilities for those young people under 16.”

I hope that this brings some re-assurance,

Kind regards,

Charlene

Office Manager & Parliamentary Assistant to Máiri McAllan
MSP for Clydesdale

Charlene.mcpake@

WouldBeGood · 16/11/2021 15:38

This was from the office of Mairi McAllan, SNP. It’s upside down in that the reply from her is at the bottom, then a follow up question, then another reply.

Iggi999 · 16/11/2021 19:13

The Scottish Government strongly supports the single sex exceptions in the 2010 Equality Act which allow for trans people to be excluded when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim
This paragraph is fascinating, I wonder if the Greens know this? Or even the SNP? As this is clearly not what is already happening in practice.

WouldBeGood · 16/11/2021 19:16

Yes, I was surprised

2319inprogress · 17/11/2021 00:15

Well they can "strongly support" whilst not actually asking councils etc etc to provide single sex spaces I suppose - unsurprisingly two faced Hmm
Also when do they consider it proportionate when they basically needed their arms twisted to let rape victims chose the sex of their examiner?

Ratherly · 19/11/2021 12:02

Thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding reform of the Gender Recognition Act (GRA).

I am committed to achieving a world free from all forms of bigotry and discrimination. Transgender people are one of the most discriminated groups in society – two in five young trans people have attempted suicide, I find this totally unacceptable.

I believe in updating the GRA to enable a process for gender self-identification. I believe that the current process for obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate can be lengthy and traumatic for individuals who wish to change their legally recorded gender.

As you may be aware, the Scottish Government have published the results of the further consultation into proposed reforms but they have not yet introduced a reform Bill to Parliament. As with any legislation I will of course look at the detail in the Bill closely when it is published.

I note that you raise the issue of single sex spaces – it is the Equality Act which allows for the provision of women only spaces, this law rightly assumes the inclusion of trans women, except in specific circumstances. I continue to support the implementation of this Act.

I trust that you find this email informative as regards my position on the matter.

Yours sincerely,

Paul O’Kane MSP
Member of the Scottish Parliament for West Scotland
Scottish Labour and Scottish Co-operative Party
Shadow Minister for Public Health and Social Care

Ratherly · 19/11/2021 12:02

That completely spurious two in five suicide crap. Angry

2319inprogress · 19/11/2021 18:47

Bastards

"law rightly assumes the inclusion of trans women, except in specific circumstances" like when women are in a state of undress etc!!!
Is it worth asking him the Staniland Question?

Forwomenscotland Please email your MSPs about GRA
NonnyMouse1337 · 23/01/2022 11:27

Women of Scotland: if you're on Twitter, please consider getting in touch with and joining your nearest Scottish Feminist Network group.

twitter.com/Scot_Feminists/status/1484128723305697282?s=20

Scottish government will be introducing their GRA reform bill to parliament soon, so it's 'all hands on deck' time and we need as many women to help out in any way that they can.

If anyone can spare a little, please consider helping Sole Sisters with their costs of running the weekend street stalls.

twitter.com/womenspeakscot1/status/1484430485623296001?s=20

Whether you're on social media or not, make sure you're signed up to For Women Scotland's newsletter to get updates and calls for action via email.

forwomen.scot/newsletter/

Rhannion · 23/01/2022 22:10

OP I think you should start a thread on AIBU to get even more attention especially for the links. This is so important especially after the recent appalling response from the woman in charge of GRA Reform.

ElephantOfRisk · 24/01/2022 10:41

Not scottish, but this shows what happens when there is pushback on this agenda.

Rhannion · 24/01/2022 20:13

Did any of you read the statement from Sole Sisters about their meeting with the SG and the minster in charge of the GRA policy? It’s on Sole Sisters Twitter and it’s fucking outrageous. We women in Scotland have got a huge fight on our hands to protect safe spaces for ourselves our female relatives and friends. Please help us by contacting your MPs , MSPs & the House of Lords. We need to push back or we will lose so much, and once our rights are gone, we won’t get them back!

Rhannion · 24/01/2022 20:14

Women in Wales are having the same issues there, so Scotland isn’t alone in this madness.

readsalotgirl63 · 27/01/2022 10:22

Oops - I've sent it again as there is something in the news this morning
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60141382

Rhannion · 27/01/2022 23:52

It’s fantastic news 👆

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