Visiting Edinburgh - mask exemption

[whiteonesugar]

Hi all

I’m visiting Edinburgh in the next couple of weeks and have mask exemption in England.
Will I need to carry this with me and is it valid? I don’t tend to wear the lanyard (I carry in my bag) as I don’t like to draw attention to myself but not sure whether I’m likely to be challenged in Edinburgh.

Can anyone advise? I’m happy to show the lanyard / card but not a huge fan of wearing it on display as it tends to invite comment!

Wear your landyard to protect you from the mask police here. It’s really sad we’re still even having this discussion. I personally do not care if someone is or isn’t wearing a mask or a lanyard. What a shame you have to tag yourself with hidden disabilities. Enjoy your Edinburgh trip, most decent folk will make you feel very welcome.

Heartening to see this enlightened comment, and the other reasonable comments about face coverings (and the scornful attitudes sometimes shown to those not wearing a face covering). My friend is exempt for very personal/complex reasons, she is young and 'healthy looking' (always very well presented) and she has had a couple of intrusive/rude comments. Mainly from elderly people, though one younger (scruffy) guy made a comment in a shop. He was wearing a grubby looking cloth mask, gaping at both sides (ergo doing no good whatsoever). I kept schtum for her sake (she was, understandably, upset by it) but its VERY hard not to call that type of person out for the discriminatory nuisance they are.

@ClerkMaxwell

I definitely look for a lanyard if no mask on public transport/cafe/restaurant not because I care about why they have an exemption but because I am making an quick assessment of the risk to me (mask/landyard=okay neither=not okay). No different from the usual assessment you make when choosing where to sit.

Why does no mask but lanyard = OK no mask no lanyard = not OK?

@prettybird I'm sorry both you and your DH have Covid, but I feel I have to point out that masks just reduce the risk, and as most people wear dirty cloth masks or disposable ones multiple times, then I'm not sure they provide much resistance to Covid.

Check out the Scotland numbers where we do have mask wearing indoors and schools and numbers still were very high when everything reopened including schools.

Unfortunately I think it's a personal choice to attend busy places or not - although I understand funerals are a difficult choice.

As a broader point, the more people with hidden disabilities who feel that wearing a lanyard will mean that people are kinder and more helpful, and it's not just tagging & separating them, the better the world will be.

My DM who is medically exempt has still been verbally attacked whilst wearing a lanyard so I can see that not being able to wear a mask causes worry either way.

Neither funeral was one that we could not go to in the circumstances (without going into personal details ). And I fully recognise that wearing masks only reduces the risk (as does double vaccination) - and that they are more protective of others than yourself.

That's why I choose to wear one, even in places where it is not mandated to do ;like England) - but also why, where possible, I will not stay in the vicinity of someone who I don't know who is not wearing a mask.

That's my way of reducing the risk. Unfortunately, the one time I couldn't maintain that approach, I catch it. Bad luck or chance perhaps - but there you are

By the timings, it was almost definitely the funeral in England, judging by when dh and I exhibited symptoms (mostly sneezing on my part). Hadn't been out since the previous Sunday (when I had done a LFT which was negative) before that - and it had been my dad's turn to come to lunch that week (and his PCR was negative yesterday ). Rugby training on the Wednesday had been cancelled due to the torrential downpours.

Fortunately this week, when I popped into Lidl on the way to my Dad's - thinking I just had a cold and not realising I was positive - I wore a mask. And although I had the Test & Protect app running on my phone, I doubt that I was in Lidl long enough (only 5 minutes), and maintained different distance, for it to trigger an alert to anyone there.

How did we all survive pre 2020? So brainwashed and socially divided by messaging over the past 18months, that we’re staying away from people in public who aren’t wearing a mask.

I’m old enough to remember the attitudes around AIDS, the ignorant and harmful attitude that you could get HIV (or ‘catch AIDS’ if you were too naive to understand the difference) from being near someone with it, let alone holding hands or drinking from the same cup. We are there all over again and it’s hideous.

Only time educates the masses, let’s hope people start to learn from our mistakes around the approach to Covid.

I completely and utterly very strongly disagree with you. I too am old enough to remember when AIDS was identified (I can even remember my medic friends talking about it before it was even called AIDS) and the various campaigns to stop its spread.

The "attitudes" of taking action to protect oneself against COVID are nothing like the way people were prejudiced against AIDS. AIDS was only ever transmitted via a significant exchange of body fluids, and anyone who thought otherwise was ignorant (and prejudiced) from the earliest of days. It was (and is) relatively difficult to catch it - and never by touch. And easy to avoid it using simple precautions - although it took some time to get that message across.

COVID is a respiratory disease which has the added complication of being infectious prior to showing symptoms and in many cases remains asymptomatic. Hence why it spreads so easily. So for example at the moment (and at least I'm now symptomatic) I'm sneezing a lot. That's a hell of a lot of aerosol droplets. Without a mask, they would be propelled a long way (and yes, I cover my nose and mouth but sometimes they happen really quickly and my hands are full). At least I am keeping my infection in my own home.

It's telling that countries that had "suffered" from the earlier SARS epidemics were much more compliant about wearing masks. They understood the importance of doing so. In Japan it was already common place to see people wearing masks - not because they had to but because they had a cold and it was common courtesy not to put others at risk which would seem not to be so common in some of the attitudes here

I'm not going to say everything I'd like to say as I don't want to be deleted.

Thanks everybody for your helpful comments. I’ll keep my lanyard with me visible or at least within easy reach, if I’ve been asked to wear a mask in England (whilst it was still mandatory) I told them I was exempt and only one person asked if I had anything to prove it (which I didn’t at that time! I felt so embarrassed) but I wasn’t sure if that would be enough in Edinburgh.

In terms of mask / lanyard ok / no mask no lanyard not ok, I don’t quite agree. You can’t pass something on if you don’t have it, and I’d rather sit next to a Covid free person without a mask than someone in a mask with Covid! But unfortunately we can’t see Covid lol

Thanks again, looking forward to our trip 😊

Enjoy your trip . Unfortunately the weather doesn't look like it's playing ball

I live here and frequently don't wear a mask as do many friends. We are not exempt, who cares.

Enjoy your trip I wear a landyard but hate the fact that I use a sunflower one because that's what has become socially acceptable rather than what the true meaning of the sunflower landyard is!

I generally find people give me more space when I'm not wearing a mask compared to when I did fine by me but the looks and occasional comments gets tiresome.

@prettybird hope you feel better soon but please read some of the articles available on ventilation with delta. Also the misconception that you were safe before unfortunately is untrue. You can follow every SG rule in the book and still get it we certainly did through DS attending nursery. His came from his pal who came from his mum who is a nurse no avoiding it at all! It's actually in general circulation in hospitals a place where people are in masks all day, high hand cleansing environment etc.
It's a virus it circulates, it will continue circulating regardless of how many measures people follow because delta viral particle size escapes masks and viral load is much lower and can be easily breathed in even if wearing a mask. The plus side of having covid is actually realising that you then have a good immunity level. We stopped being so worried about it and I have had a rough 7 months with long covid! I was able to and did wear a mask before getting covid BTW its only now I no longer can.
Just got to make sure vulnerable are vaccinated with boosters etc.

I have read plenty of peer reviewed literature: I don't get my scientific information from FB (or MN) My dad also still gets his BMJ and reads it carefully, as well as seeking out other scholarly articles.

I was safe in the period I mentioned because I didn't go out for a week before Nor did dh. My dad's only other interaction had been with my brother - over from France (for a different funeral). My ds is in Aberdeen - only arrived down on Sunday (in order to go to the funeral on Monday) and went direct to a Halloween Party, getting picked up at 1.30am.

All 5 of us have had PCR tests done on Thursday/Friday (My dad and my brother froze for the evening with the windows open while they awaited their results - especially as the funeral my db was over for was the following morning ). Only dh and I are positive - so we didn't catch it off them (and just as importantly, they didn't catch it off us - but double vaccination does reduce that risk ). My 21 year old ds had managed to get his 1st vaccination well before it was opened up to his age group when Aberdeen ran a trial pop-up clinic.

We can't catch it from other people in our own house as there haven't been any . We'd had a lot to do in the garden so hadn't even been going on our regular walks around the local park - so can't have caught it by passing people in the park or on the street (not that I think that ). So unless you're suggesting that the wind and drafty windows somehow wafted the virus up and into the upper floor of a Victorian villa or that it arrived on the post , the only other place we interacted with anyone else, and allowing for an incubation period, was at the English funeral. (The App says I was infectious from Monday).

And much as we cared for the guy whose partner had died, he's not exactly keen on vaccinations and nor are his local friends, who (according to dh, who "spoke" to him more) tended to ignore most of the English lockdown rules In hindsight perhaps we shouldn't have gone - but the shockingly sudden & completely unexpected death of his lovely partner (who was only 50 ) left us reeling and we felt we needed to go

Anecdata yes. But given that within a few days of the one occasion where we were amongst unmasked people, with a higher proportion of unvaccinated people - and not having been in contact with anyone else - we catch it does seem like one helluva coincidence. It probably also doesn't help that it's coming up to 6 months since we had our 2nd AZ jags so its efficacy is reduced.

Plus the symptoms in double-vaccinated people can look more like a cold (and not even a bad one at that ). If I weren't already in the habit of doing regular LFTs, I probably wouldn't have thought to do one, which shocked me by being positive - and it's only because of a comment from dh that I can "date" the start of my symptoms (that I'd had a temperature on Wednesday morning).

@whiteonesugar

Thanks everybody for your helpful comments. I’ll keep my lanyard with me visible or at least within easy reach, if I’ve been asked to wear a mask in England (whilst it was still mandatory) I told them I was exempt and only one person asked if I had anything to prove it (which I didn’t at that time! I felt so embarrassed) but I wasn’t sure if that would be enough in Edinburgh.

In terms of mask / lanyard ok / no mask no lanyard not ok, I don’t quite agree. You can’t pass something on if you don’t have it, and I’d rather sit next to a Covid free person without a mask than someone in a mask with Covid! But unfortunately we can’t see Covid lol

Thanks again, looking forward to our trip 😊

Nobody will ask you to wear a mask, unless you end up in a medical setting. Don't feel you need a lanyard for anyones benefit. They mean nothing and they prove nothing. Just crack on and you will be absolutely fine.

I do agree about learning to live with it. But the UK's continued resistance to taking basic precautions is not "learning to live with it". Our rates are still too high The 7 day rolling average of deaths has been going up since July with only one slight dip. Yes, a high proportion of those are unvaccinated - but they're still real people, real deaths I'm actually not so concerned by the increasing number of cases (despite now being part of the stats ) as double vaccination reduces hospital admissions - but I am concerned that the deaths are rising again.

Db has an interesting perspective from his experience of living "with" it in France, where vaccinations are expected and masks are still to be worn inside - and life is much more "normal" than here .

Passes sanitaires are accepted as required to access most facilities because they helped the country to return to a more normal life. PCR tests are free if you're vaccinated but need a prescription if you're not (over simplifying it). For a country that almost prides itself on not being told what to do (I've lived there for a year myself), their acceptance of this being the "right" thing to do has been remarkable. Not happy (and yes, there are petty acts of rebellion) but in most cases they do it.

But even so, the WHO is expressing concern at increasing rates across Europe, linked to relaxation of public health measures and reduced vigilance amongst the public.

@whiteonesugar.

Enjoy your trip. Hopefully the weather will pick up.

My comment on the mask/landyard=okay no mask/landyard=not okay was in context of me choosing who to be near. I didn't mean to give the impression that landyard wearing should be compulsory. It shouldn't.

Everyone I know who has an exemption is super careful covid wise so I consider landyard wearers safer so am happy to sit near them.

@prettybird

I do agree about learning to live with it. But the UK's continued resistance to taking basic precautions is not "learning to live with it". Our rates are still too high The 7 day rolling average of deaths has been going up since July with only one slight dip. Yes, a high proportion of those are unvaccinated - but they're still real people, real deaths I'm actually not so concerned by the increasing number of cases (despite now being part of the stats ) as double vaccination reduces hospital admissions - but I am concerned that the deaths are rising again.

Db has an interesting perspective from his experience of living "with" it in France, where vaccinations are expected and masks are still to be worn inside - and life is much more "normal" than here .

Passes sanitaires are accepted as required to access most facilities because they helped the country to return to a more normal life. PCR tests are free if you're vaccinated but need a prescription if you're not (over simplifying it). For a country that almost prides itself on not being told what to do (I've lived there for a year myself), their acceptance of this being the "right" thing to do has been remarkable. Not happy (and yes, there are petty acts of rebellion) but in most cases they do it.

But even so, the WHO is expressing concern at increasing rates across Europe, linked to relaxation of public health measures and reduced vigilance amongst the public.

Anecdotal comparisons with other european countries tell us very little (people tend to cherry pick countries, when comparing, to suit their own position).

You've referenced France (where methods of testing, stats etc are completely different to the UK) yet there are corroborated points of reference (via national statistics which illustrate the UK state of play overall, and the 4 nations by nation) right here at home, whereby one nation (Scotland) retained the legal mask mandate whilst another didn't (England). I'm assuming you chose not to use the more obvious (UK) choice because it doesnt support your position? There is no evidence in the UK's real world data to suggest the mask mandate in Scotland benefitted us - indeed our situation in Scotland (in terms of cases, hospital admissions and deaths) was significantly poorer than England's in the 3 month period from 'freedom day' on 19 July!

In terms of the vaccine passport (again, introduced in Scotland but not in England) ScotGov has been asked repeatedly, since the vaccine passport was introduced, to produce evidence it is making a difference, and they can't. Not one shred have they managed to produce.

So is Scotland the only country having to produce evidence that supports vaccine passports? Is no other country introducing them??

I'm being reminded why I made the conscious decision over a year ago never to engage in debates on Scotsnet and only ever to post either on the happy/trivial threads or where people have asked for specific advice (eg advice about an area) which is how I got drawn into this thread

I'm going to go back to following my own advice.

Same @prettybird

I need to learn to stay on a certain thread or forever sit on my hands

@ssd

So is Scotland the only country having to produce evidence that supports vaccine passports? Is no other country introducing them??

I believe Scotland is the only country, certainly in Europe, with a vaccine only passport (proof of negative test not included), happy to be corrected though if that's not the case and there are others (I promise I wont take the huff 😅😉).

Not getting drawn in

@Pootle40

I live here and frequently don't wear a mask as do many friends. We are not exempt, who cares.

Well I do, but you obviously don't care about my opinion (or safety).

Obviously the English Covid™️ is everywhere where crowds of people gather- and here in Scotland we don’t have anyone with covid in crowds or at events.

Apologies to OP as this thread has derailed slightly and shamefully contains some anti-English sentiment, as expressed by a small number of folk who still believe the air they breathe in Scotland is so very different to England.

To the PP- So irrelevant where you think you caught it, jog on with your anti-English thoughts.

If there is a protocol ie. the lanyard then you should display it in public. Otherwise what is the point of going to the trouble of setting up these systems and creating a public awareness campaign.
I just don't follow the logic of not wearing a mask or a lanyard and then getting worried about if you're questioned. You should be questioned as it's in the interests of public health and why we've been restricted in our movements and actions for so long.

You won't need it. While mask compliance is high nobody bats an eyelid when they aren't worn. Enjoy your stay.