These adverts encouraging people to carry drug antidote?

[Tealandabney]

I had not heard of this antidote before. it is a good thing more people do know about it. And obviously if it helps save lives that is a good thing. I do wonder if it could give some people false security to go ahead and take drugs though. The cynical part of me hopes that the Scottish government is doing all it can to stop people actually taking drugs in the first place and not just using this as a tactic to reduce the deaths so their stats don’t look so bad.

I suppose there is also the possibility that our own family and friends could collapse for a reason other than drugs and be injected by a well meaning person who doesn’t do it right

Here’s the full information if you want, including the advert.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea for anyone to recognise the signs of an overdose, I just found it pretty informative.

www.stopthedeaths.com/

I believe it is delivered via a nasal spray and not a syringe. The police have not been routinely trained and carrying naloxone IN Scotland. I believe there are some police officers carrying just now but this is quite a recent thing and is not compulsory.

I was would have some concerns about giving it to anyone, especially strangers.

@SheWoreYellow that is interesting to see the signs of an overdose.

But it says opioids are involved in 89% of deaths in Scotland
That surely can't be right! Does it mean 89% of drugs deaths?
What about covid?
What about cancer?

@Tealandabney

For some reason I did assume it was a Scottish government thing as it does sound like the sort of thing they would dream up as a good idea. I do t think it is a uk advert? Does anyone know?

I'm in England and I haven't seen this. Excuse my ignorance but are they encouraging everyone yo pick up supplies and be on the lookout or is it just certain people? I wouldn't have the faintest idea why someone had collapsed so I'd be reluctant to jab anyone. I'm not sure if I fainted for some reason and someone jabbed me, I'd be too happy. Is the drug safe to be injected into non drug users? It all sounds quite irresponsible. Having said that if you associated with or had a family member who was a drug addict. This sounds like it could be a good idea. Except mogglemoo said they injected 3 unknown to them people in Glasgow centre. Yikes. Firstly that you're expected to jab people you don't know and secondly that 3 people were overdosing outside in Glasgow centre in one day. Is that normal? But maybe mogglemoo is a hcp so they would be looking for people in trouble? It's an interesting initiative to tackle a seemingly growing problem but I wonder if the average person on the street is really equipped to deal with these things. I wonder if it's going to be rolled out across the rest of the UK?

It’s not that clear in the advert who they are telling this information to. But it does sound like it addressed to all the public in general. If it was just for family and friends of addicts then I am not sure why a public information campaign would be required as they could maybe be contacted another way?

“Anyone in Scotland who is likely to find someone experiencing an overdose in their family, their community, their workplace or in a public place can request a naloxone kit and be trained in its use.”

From that site.

[quote sartorius]@SheWoreYellow that is interesting to see the signs of an overdose.

But it says opioids are involved in 89% of deaths in Scotland
That surely can't be right! Does it mean 89% of drugs deaths?
What about covid?
What about cancer?
[/quote]
Yes, DRUG deaths! Sorry!!!

Actually, I said drug deaths in my post.

@SheWoreYellow. As mogglemoo found 3 people overdosing in Glasgow Centre, it must be quite prevalent so I'd suggest most people are likely to come across someone overdosing in a public place. I'd be concerned about would-be medics wandering around armed with a hypodermic needle, meaning we'll but maybe doing harm. But maybe I'm speaking from a place of ignorance because I don't see that problem around me. Maybe if I lived somewhere where its more visible, I'd feel different and be more prepared?

Aha. Right, I quoted the 89%, referencing drug deaths.

The website quotes the 89% too and forgets the word drug!

Apparently there are billboards as part of this campaign, so I would assume it's aimed at everyone. It does seem bit like passing the buck though, and a 'look we're doing something' gesture rather than meaningful action to tackle drug addiction. I can see how it might be useful if you live with a drug addict, but I think expanding it to everyone is just asking for trouble. As above, I can see many of the 'wrong' people getting the antidote, and it's far from certain that said addicts would appreciate the 'help' anyway, with safety implications for the public. Could if be considered assault to administer drugs to someone without consent? What happens if someone has a bad reaction to naloxone that a stranger administers? Who is liable?

Scotland has some interesting policies in tackling the drugs problem. I guess if you, in practical terms, decriminalise the taking of drugs, you reduce the crime statistics, but it will interesting to see how they work towards tackling the increase in drug deaths. I think its great they're trialling stuff so that the rest of the uk can take advantage of the bits that work.

Those who have compared it to an epipen or the defibrillators you see on street corners are exactly right - it is a public health intervention for emergencies. It isn’t the whole drug treatment system. It’s just that recovery is a complex non linear process, that people sometimes relapse. There are sometimes synthetic opioids on the market which are very very strong and send people who are usually tolerant over. under those circumstances naloxone is really helpful. Gives people another chance. Came from a body of literature showing that 70% of heroin deaths were witnessed and that most people who were with the person who died wanted to and tried to help.

@Bonbon21 you really think being drug addicted is a lifestyle choice, really? Perhaps you should look at the stats for adult survivors of child sexy abuse\childhood domestic violence/ care experienced young people etc.
This is the stigma people have to live with .

I’ve done cpr on the street, to someone who has had an OD. Having seen how quickly they recovered after the naloxone, I’d be happy to carry some with mean case I ever found myself in the same situation.

@madisonbridges

Scotland has some interesting policies in tackling the drugs problem. I guess if you, in practical terms, decriminalise the taking of drugs, you reduce the crime statistics, but it will interesting to see how they work towards tackling the increase in drug deaths. I think its great they're trialling stuff so that the rest of the uk can take advantage of the bits that work.

You've misunderstood. Decriminalisation leads to less deaths. See Portugal. They used to have one if the highest rate in Europe and now have nearly the lowest. We can't do this in Scotland as it's reserved. Highland Council ( and possibly others) are following the Icelandic model ( something we can introduce). Iceland used to have the highest rates of drug misuse in Europe and they introduced a variety of extra curricular activities and this had a huge impact on drug and alcohol misuse.

@madisonbridges yes of course Naloxone has been used before 2007 however it was around this time that SDF/Turning Point rolled out the trainer training in Glasgow Community settings.
Again I’d just say that sadly Scotland has always had a high OD rate in comparison to the rest of Europe partly due to the fact that the dealers have always had a tight control on pretty much heroin as drug of choice , there has always been a lower “uptake” of drugs such as crack.
So no point in trying to blame this SG that’s a complete red herring.
It’s decades of poor planning and underfunding by consecutive governments because of course the public don’t want all the health budget going on “lifestyle choices” junkies, do they?
Again just to add that alcohol misuse costs they NHS much more than drug addiction.

Starryeyesurprise Iceland introduced a variety of extracurricular activities to reduce drug use? Like after school crafts and sports etc, ? That’s very interesting, so keeping young people busy and active was enough to reverse a trend?

Yes! My friend is leading the roll out of this in the Highlands. They're currently surveying young people, to ask what they would like in terms of activities etc. Then they'll work with the council to roll it out , which will take time and money. Iceland had THE worst rates in Europe, I believe. And now it has very low rates of misuse as youngsters are kept busy with other things. It's simple really but if there are no community centres etc , where do teenagers meet up? Woods, streets etc with no adult supervision. Teenagers like to belong and be together. If they can do this in a supervised but fun place then it shoukd really help us move away from the culture we currently have.

Oh that’s amazing. I hope they role this out further. My eldest is at an age where everything suddenly becomes elitist and no longer inclusive. He loves swimming and football but is not good enough for the teams so I feel his evenings are a bit empty. This has given me the boost to try and find something else for him

@giggly. Um, I'm not sure why your comment is aimed at me. I said I thought it was great they're trialling stuff. I haven't criticised the Scottish Govt at all.

@Tealandabney

I am not sure that many people would administer cpr. A lot may like to think they would but in reality it is not all that straight forward and requires training really. Also less likely that your attempts at cpr would make matters worse, which is why I would worry about administering a drug.

If someone’s heart has stopped then they will die anyway so there’s not a lot you can do to make it worse. So please don’t let that stop you trying CPR. Don’t worry about breaking a rib or anything like that.

And if someone has stopped breathing because of some reason that’s NOT opiate overdose, Naloxone won’t make any difference. It knocks the opiates off the opiate receptors in the brain.

But it’s only short term , which is not you need to call an ambulance at the same time. The paramedics will give IV Naloxone ( if the person consents, which they often don’t ).

Same with the AED defibrillator. They won’t give a shock if it’s not required. They are foolproof.

So please don’t worry about tying these, if you are ever in the situation.

However I totally understand that you don’t want to carry Naloxone . IME it’s really only relevant to people who know others with addictions - clients, friends, family member. You’d probably be better off carrying an aspirin in your handbag / purse.

And if someone has stopped breathing because of some reason that’s NOT opiate overdose

I thought that was how opiates could kill — they suppress your nervous system to the point you do stop breathing/your heart stops beating?

@PolkadotsAndMoonbeams

And if someone has stopped breathing because of some reason that’s NOT opiate overdose

I thought that was how opiates could kill — they suppress your nervous system to the point you do stop breathing/your heart stops beating?

I mean if they have had a cardiac arrest/ stroke / whatever.

People are worried that they might find someone who has stopped breathing, assume it’s a drug overdose, “ mistakenly “ give them Naloxone and somehow make things worse.

I’m just explaining that’s impossible. Naloxone will have no effect ( good or bad) unless you have OD on opiates.

I was replying to Tealandabney who said

I am not sure that many people would administer cpr. A lot may like to think they would but in reality it is not all that straight forward and requires training really. Also less likely that your attempts at cpr would make matters worse, which is why I would worry about administering a drug

She is worried that she might make matters worse. Either CPR or Naloxone. You won’t make matters worse so if you are ever in that situation and in a position to help, please try.