Is an independent Scotland and unified Ireland now linked?

[hahahayoumustbejoking]

I'm pro independence but not really pro SNP. Definitely not Alba either!

More and more SNP political friends are talking about how an independent Scotland will lead to a unified Ireland. It seems this is now part of the linked cause.

Is this now a thing? If so, why? And won't this put your average voter off the independence message?

Just feels like a sudden rise in Irish politics in the SNP.

I think it's more that in some areas of the west of Scotland the vote divides on sectarian lines.

Protestant / Rangers / unionist parties.
Catholic / Celtic / SNP

A unified Ireland? Never. Look up President Higgins refusing an invitation to a church service celebrating the NI becoming British and he was applauded for it.

Eire fought too hard and long and hates the UK too much

Do you mean unified as in an independent country op? I have friends in NI and Dublin. Those in the North are completely fed up over the impact of Brexit and would welcome joining the South in the EU.

solo
I don't understand your reasoning. Are you saying Ireland wouldn't want the North because it's British and they hate Britain? The event you're referencing commemorates the North being kept by Britain, something that is the antithesis of a United Ireland which is why he wouldn't go.

I don't think a lot of people living in Ireland would want to see a united Ireland anymore because it comes down to stretching resources over a wider area. Also, people in NI are often culturally different and neither side wants that group to be classified as Irish!

Agree that Brexit has affected many in both Scotland and NI's feelings towards the UK. Many people I know from both communities in NI don't want a United Ireland or see that as a solution to NI's problems. Some have fantasised about an independent NI! Some in Ireland are wary of the impact of a United ireland,eg having to deal with the possible tensions and economic hardships of NI out of the UK. That's not to minimise or dismiss many people's understandable wishes for unification, but just to say it's quite a different kettle of fish from Scotland.

@cloudacious

solo I don't understand your reasoning. Are you saying Ireland wouldn't want the North because it's British and they hate Britain? The event you're referencing commemorates the North being kept by Britain, something that is the antithesis of a United Ireland which is why he wouldn't go.

??? not sure what your comment is about? I simply referred and made no further comment and of course you have drawn the right conclusion for his refusal. It was really a crass invitation to make with typical UK tactlessness.

Well, I might've picked it up wrong but I'm sure the thrust of the conversation was that if you want the north and south of Ireland to become one country then an independent scotland would hasten that as it breaks up the UK. Therefore it's in the interests of Irish republicans to increase their membership of SNP with more pro one Ireland members as the long goal is a United Ireland.

As I said, I'm not a particular fan of the SNP. They do seem to be stretching their remit wider with different groups to get independence over the line but I don't think it will deliver increased independence support. Start bringing in different agendas then surely splinters will happen?

Given that people on both sides of the Irish divide were happy to take action in the form of bombs and having paramilitary forces then I think it's not the case that all the lovely folks in NI are begging to be part of a unified ireland. You can't simplify a long term complex issue like this down to whether Scotland ever wants to be independent or indeed because of brexit. You just can't.

SNP keep trying to convince folks that things such as Boris or Brexit or whatever is a gamechanger when all the evidence would suggest that we are still pretty much in the same position we were in 2014. You can try to discount the undecideds but history shows that 9 out of 10 generally stick with the status quo.

From what I understand the “ paramilitary criminals” thrive under the conflict of North and South as it’s a good cover for what’s basically turf wars , feuding, drugs, extortion and so on . Nothing to do with a unified Ireland . So they for one won’t want any truck with unification.

Maybe someone who lives in Belfast or similar might come along and give us some views from the ground.

I have family from both communities in Belfast and elsewhere in NI and although some of my family would like unification on some level, they are aware that it could well reboot divisions and violence (which has been growing again in recent years). Most ordinary people don't want a return to how it was, however much they may have Republican or Unionist sensibilities. It can be quite upsetting when English or Scottish journalists or politicians weigh in on this issue assuming that everyone in NI and Ireland want unification and only a few elderly Orange order people would object. It's just a gross simplification of what is a very complex situation.

For Scotland to be independent you'd need a major SNP win.

That's not going to happen. The SNP are the rudest, most obstructive and dismissive politicians I've had the displeasure of trying to communicate with.

Thankfully they've hit self destruct and will hopefully be out at the next GE taking the Greens with them.

I think by like 2022 or close to that there will be more nationalists in Northern Ireland than unionists,so the tables might begin to turn if there's a referendum to be sought

Fingers crossed @Torvean.

Additionally the EU is a busted flush. Macron behaves more like a toddler than Trump did and that's some serious competition! He sees himself as the natural successor to Merkle. It will be tough times in the EU without the net contributor that the UK was.

The whole political landscape is changing and the post covid world is looking very different to the pre covid one. Biden was a mistake and his deputy is curiously missing but then she is a pretty unpleasant character and should not have been chosen either.

I'm fed up with it all to be honest. A big lack of people of integrity and talent in power across the world and we have particularly inept ones ourselves. The rest of us all have to prove our worth to our employers on a regular basis, why aren't politicians called upon to show where they have added value or at a minimum actually served their constituents?

Eire fought too hard and long and hates the UK too much

There is no such thing as Éire, if you are speaking English.

It's offensive to Irish people to use it.

The word is Ireland.

Does Ireland want reunification? Any Irish person I've spoken to has given me the rudest version of no thank you but they are living in England so perhaps feelings are different there?

@Theunamedcat

Does Ireland want reunification? Any Irish person I've spoken to has given me the rudest version of no thank you but they are living in England so perhaps feelings are different there?

None of my Irish friends was reunification. In fact they strongly oppose it.

This is quite a leap, OP. Big thinking that bears no reflection on the intricate reality of undoing a State such as the United Kingdom.

Were either population to vote for this it is possible that the experience, paralysis, and vast economic damage done by spending time negotiating might act as a deterrent for the other population.

I am from NI and most of my family are still there. They tell me that there is an increasing appetite to see the island reunited but always with the caveat that the resulting conflict would be great. Maybe an independent Scotland would pave the way for an Irish referendum but no one in NI wants to go back to the troubles. It’s the reason that I and many school friends left. For most, continuing peace what is most important right now.

@SoloISland

A unified Ireland? Never. Look up President Higgins refusing an invitation to a church service celebrating the NI becoming British and he was applauded for it.

Eire fought too hard and long and hates the UK too much

@SoloISland, with respect, I don't think you are sufficiently well-informed to comment, as your assertions in this post alone amply prove. ('Celebrating' Partition? Seriously? )

And please don't call Ireland Eire unless you're actually speaking Irish, as surely you must have been told many, many times.

OP, I don't see Scottish independence as in any way related to a united Ireland, except perhaps insofar as Brexit has made the need to discuss both unavoidable.

This Fintan O'Toole piece from the Times a few weeks back strikes me as accurate enough on where things currently are in terms of the 'doublethink' of public opinion:

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-nationalists-must-have-an-honest-conversation-with-themselves-on-a-united-ireland-1.4674669

So much ignorance on this thread I don't even know where to start.

God almighty.
I'd recommend a few posters watch Paddy Kielty's recent documentary on NI on BBC.
I don't agree with all of his comments but it will give you an idea of where things currently are there.
There might be a majority of people who soon want a united ireland but it's not that straightforward. A minority can do huge damage to any best efforts. It's sad to watch as whatever about the wrongs of partition / plantations, the vast majority of people just want to live peacefully side by side each other. Yet many are unable to do this - some because they are brought up with sectarian beliefs and others because their families have been through trauma.

So theoretically an independent Scotland might pave the way for how NI would leave the UK but the reality is what would it look like if it did leave, does Ireland want it, what about those who will fight to oppose it etc etc.

In (Scottish) nationalists there is obviously an antipathy towards the union, therefore natural sympathy with the nationalist cause in NI - not that surprising really, though I would also say in the west of Scotland you may get a misleading sense of how strongly that is felt in the SNP generally.

My reading on a united Ireland is, as others have said, flipping the country which NI is part of from UK to Ireland doesn't really solve anything, in fact it arguably makes the situation there worse (Republic is less able to deal with potentially hostile unionist minority than UK was able to deal with nationalist one, due to size).

That said, a big impediment to re-unification years ago was the obvious wealth disparity between UK and the Republic - that's no longer an issue, and plenty of moderate unionists no longer as implacably opposed as they once were, so it might be the long term direction of travel. Who knows.

There's no apathy in SNP supporters IME . Today I've been verbally attacked because I dare to challenge "queen nicola" , and because I've done military duty.

Divisive and rude, just like the SNP themselves . Tides going against them rapidly now. In fact they're self imploding. Satisfying to watch after what they've done in Scotland.