Entrance exams for private schools in Scotland

[BanksiaRose]

Hello, I know nothing about private schools but am considering it for my two daughters when we relocate next year, as they would get a lot out of the extra-curricular activities and one of them could do with smaller class sizes and extra help with her work. Can anyone comment on how academically gifted kids need to be in order to pass entrance exams? Is it really just top students that are going to be offered places? How can I prepare my kids for the tests?

What age are they and what schools/area? Entrance processes vary a lot

How old are your daughters? The selection tests are nothing to be concerned about in my experience of two different schools. One of my two joined in the final year of primary school, the other in the first year of secondary.

Tests were verbal reasoning, non verbal reasoning, maths and writing an essay. They were there for a few hours. My DC have very different strengths but neither had any issue or felt the tests were particularly difficult. Both schools did their best to put the children at ease and one described the experience as ‘fun’!

Hi, thanks for responding. My daughters are going into P7 and into S2.

Thanks @TakeTheCoastalPath, so would you describe your kids as typically being top/near top of class when they took the entrance exams?

For entry into S1 there was a set day where everyone applying attended for an information meeting, tour and tests which were sat in the hall due to the number of applicants. For other year groups I think it would feel a bit less formal and more personal. Both schools also wanted to see the most recent report from the children’s current school.

Both above average I’d say, one excels with verbal skills and creative writing, one strong mathematically but neither would have come across as being very confident. In all honesty from our experience and those of a handful of others I know, I don’t think the tests were that onerous. The DC didn’t do any prior practice and one DC found there were maths questions they hadn’t yet encountered and it wasn’t an issue.

It very much depends on the school. Some are more academically selective than others and will turn down children who they don't think will be able to keep up with the pace or may affect their exam results.

Entrance exam usually consists of English (essay), maths and V/NV reasoning. In primary they usually do a taster day and the teacher assesses them during the day, plus school report.
Practising reasoning papers and essay writing is good idea. Don't worry too much about maths as there seems to be big discrepancies in what children have actually covered, particularly children coming from overseas.

Mine are at an Edinburgh school which is not particularly academically selective. I would say as long as the child is above average ability they will take them. 95% of their leavers go directly on to university though.
Mine were probably in top third in their state primary, one was further down for maths. They definitely were not top of the class! They have done well and are getting good exam results now.

Heriots is the Edinburgh day school which is considered to be most academically selective but most of the others take children with range of abilities. I'm afraid I don't know much about the private schools outwith Edinburgh.

If you can say the area and schools you're interested in people may be able advise you more.
Most of the private schools are in the main cities and Perthshire.

I think the important thing is to visit the school and get a feel for it, how inclusive they are and how much they value children of differing abilities.You can tell a lot by doing this and you'll know when you've found the right place

Good luck

There are around 85 primary schools (state) in Edinburgh and a much smaller number of prep schools. It can't possibly be only the top few children in each class who would be accepted into a private school or their roll individually would be almost non-existent.

If it's the Glasgow schools, in my experience they'll take nearly anyone. You certainly don't have to be an academic superstar.

Many appear also not to be too keen on children with additional support needs.

Also interested in this for Glasgow private schools so would appreciate any insight. This would be for entry into secondary. S1. I'm really unclear how my children are doing at school as everything is always reported positivity which doesn't actually help parents know how their children are actually doing. I also have no gauge of what "level" they are at compared to their peers. I always ask teachers direct questions but always get vague "your child is making good progress, no concerns" answers.....

@Snappyteabread

Also interested in this for Glasgow private schools so would appreciate any insight. This would be for entry into secondary. S1. I'm really unclear how my children are doing at school as everything is always reported positivity which doesn't actually help parents know how their children are actually doing. I also have no gauge of what "level" they are at compared to their peers. I always ask teachers direct questions but always get vague "your child is making good progress, no concerns" answers.....

We moved our DD to private two years ago and this was one of the big differences we noticed. Parents evening at old school was so generic as to be pointless, no real info, felt like teacher barely knew her tbh. Parents evening at new school was so thorough and detailed - proper breakdown not just of broad subjects but detail within that. I came away feeling like I knew where to help her.

My DS started at Hutchie this year and he did loads of prep for the entrance exam. He was in the top group for maths at his old school but middle for English I'd say.

I'd advise you to get along to a school open day if possible and they will discuss the entrance exam there. If you can't get along I would contact the schools you are thinking about and get some past papers of the exam. That will give you some insight into what they would be expected to do. Each school with give loads of information as they want your money!

From observation over the years I've never known someone swapping to private not get in somewhere at some point. However there are points when the class sizes / year groups expand and it's easier.

Where kids have struggled a bit in the entrance they seem to be asked to join a lower year group.

Where kids have struggled a bit in the entrance they seem to be asked to join a lower year group.

I would advise caution in this situation and ask yourself if this is the right school for the child.
I know 2 children who have done this (different schools). Despite starting off well by repeating P7 they both struggled to keep up with the pace of the school in the exam years and did not do particularly well as a result.

The entrance exams are a bit of a bluff..some
Private schools are really struggling atm so will accept basically anyone.
In regards to vague info at parents evenings, it’s more down to curriculum for excellence and the lack of standardised testing, with a tracking approach for very broad levels..
The SNP thought that they were introducing something similar to a Scandinavian model but it’s really not gone very well. Once your children are in presentation years, or even third year, you should get more concrete information.

*should say I know lots of teachers who work in the Glasgow private schools. I’ve only ever known of one child to be refused but he has very severe literacy issues.
They need the money..so I wouldn’t worry.

About a quarter of edinburgh children go to private school - they can't all be the highest flyers I wouldn't have thought

No they can't, I would not worry too much about entrance although does vary school by school. Smaller class sizes and better pastoral care have been great though.

I believe there’s a hierarchy of private schools in Edinburgh 🙄 they have some ‘cheaper’ options over there but it does have an impact on the % higher passes in state schools as a result. Many Glasgow state schools outperform those, but are in affluent areas where houses are £££

Well yes, if you take a quarter of the kids, the ones with more affluent parents and parents who value education and support their DC, out of the state system then undoubtedly it affects the output of the state system.

Plenty of bright kids with interested parents in the state system, but a lesser proportion than in solely affluent areas. It's parental engagement and valuing of education that is the key to academic success imo, not just affluence, but that plays a huge part.

With the exception of a couple, most of the Edinburgh private schools are much of a muchness results wise.
In most of them approx one third of S5 get 5As at highers every year despite some being more academically selective.

And yes as ** PP pointed out, with 25% in the private sector it has a big impact on results in the state sector in Edinburgh. It is a peculiarity to Edinburgh, in any other area many of those children achieving 5As would be in state schools.

The Edinburgh private system continues to be buoyant and is very different to Glasgow. Every year children are turned down by schools. I personally know of several.

The 25% figure is also skewed by commuting kids - most of the Edinburgh private schools run coaches out to Fife and the Lothians so a non trivial number being included in that 25% would never have been in the Edinburgh state system.

But Edinburgh council would be screwed if they had to actually find school places for all the Edinburgh kids!

Yes @StatisticallyChallenged I wasn't sure whether they calculated that 25% as a total of all DC attending school in Edinburgh or worked out how many DC were in edinburgh and found that a quarter were not in state schools. And yes, can you imagine the carnage if they had to find space for them all? Unless they filled up the WHEC and some of the other schools that are "unpopular" - i could see that going down like a lead balloon. They'd need to equip and staff them all too.

I'm not 100% sure but I think the figures are just based on the school rolls. I think even filling WHEC wouldn't do it!

And I can well imagine the chaos if they tried it too - and I say that as someone who grew up in WH and now has a kid at private school.

www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/22448/secondary-school-roll-projections this has the current (well, 2020) rolls of the secondaries along with their capacities and projections. Capacity is 22700, projected 2021 roll was 21500...pretty sure 1200 spaces wouldn't touch the sides of the private secondary schools. And yes - over 400 of those spaces are at Whec, 300 at Castlebrae, 200 at tynecastle, 250 in South Queensferry. Most of the others are full or close to it - large parts of Edinburgh are at bursting point.

I spent many a happy hour in the WHEC pool but the changing rooms were a nightmare - chips in the canteen after were always good. I always found WH confusing as soon as you got away from the WHEC and the shopping centre. I grew up in Oxgangs and Broomhouse so no snobbery from me intended.

I'll happily bow to you on the stats front so very basically there must be over 5000 pupils in private school in Edinburgh, however I guess the 1 in 4 will also count primary and I suspect the proportion of high school will be more and primary less? So the rough figure for high school might be more than 1 in 4 and even accounting for those coming from outside the city, you could still be looking at over 5k entitled to a place in Edinburgh city high schools.