Scottish universities

[Stanleysaway]

I have a DC in S6 who wants to study languages. Does anyone have any useful info on Scottish universities? So far we've had a look round the university area in Glasgow, which went down well. We've also had a walk around St Andrew's, which went down less well (due to its size). DC likes Edinburgh, but I'm put off by what I've read about the Vice Chancellor and how he's dealing with woke issues, with some senior staff calling for his resignation. I've also heard that it's going downhill in terms of general quality. But I'd like to know more, to help with a comparison between Glasgow and Edinburgh. A plus point for Edinburgh is that the modern languages degree is 4 years, not 5. Is anyone in the same boat as us?

No, a student with good grades should apply for St Andrew’s as one of their five if that is where they want to go. I think personal statement and references also count. My DD got a place from a state school in Scotland. You need to make an application to have a chance. Same with any university.

Personal statements seem to make a bigger difference in Arts subjects too: ds got 3 rejections (2 from Edinburgh where he applied against my advice to two slightly different courses, and one from Dundee) and two Unconditionals (Aberdeen and Strathclyde).

@Stanleysaway

So that could mean that even with good grades, Scottish students don't get offers (and English students do)? So should a Scottish student with good highers apply to some universities which according to their websites ask for lower highers? So they could end up going to a Scottish university which is much further down the League Tables (and further down their wishlist) than they would get with similar exam results from England?

Agree with everything Elephant says. Remember that Scot Gov only pays about £2000 in fees per student so a lot of universities can't afford to take large percentage of home students when they can charge £9000 RUK.

This may be contentious, but bear in mind English unis have only three years of course fees and living costs. I know you still will end up with tuition fee debts of £30k, but this is somewhat mitigated by a year's less accommodation charges and also a year of earlier earning a wage.

There's a lot more choice of quality unis in England, plus lower entry standards in some cases.

This is dispiriting. DC is not from a deprived background, so could end up not getting offers from Edinburgh at the very least. But Edinburgh is the only university that offers a 4 year course.

Yes indeed celtiethree the unfortunate reality of our ‘free’ university places. Better offer rates for MFL than many other subjects on average I’m sure.

Of the 5 Scottish Universities offering German, my DS would prefer St A’s and Edinburgh in that order. He’ll also be studying AHs in German and French in S6. None of the other 3 really appeal so I think he’ll also have to consider English universities.

I agree Stanleysaway it is extremely dispiriting. I think Admissions departments will have an even harder job next year due to the exams that never were. I would be quite happy with offers being conditional on next years AHs to make places less of a lottery.

Obviously people get spaces in Edinburgh & St Andrews, so definitely not saying don't apply, just don't put all your eggs in one basket or make any assumption about offers. Hopefully they get offers from the places that they want.

If you don't apply you definitely won't get a space

It varies a lot by subject.
The offer rate for Scottish students is far higher for science and engineering subjects at Edinburgh.
Probably because the country needs more of these graduates going down a specific career path.
My DCs friends who are at Edinburgh had no problem getting into their 1st choice but they are science students.

The point of my post was to highlight the reality of number of places for Scottish students, students with high grades should apply to the likes of St Andrews but understand the system and accept that you might not get first choice. For very competitive courses your DC may only receive a few offers or none. As a pp stated STEM subjects have much higher offer rates. If you’re doing Art then you may need to factor in a multiple year application process with offer rates as low as 5%.

Aurea makes a good point. Look at English universities the shorter degree takes away some of the financial pain.

@Stanleysaway - is your child dead set on studying in a large city ? I’m guessing so if you are focussed on Glasgow and Edinburgh.

AFAIK the top two units for languages in Scotland are St Andrews and Dundee, then Glasgow . Edinburgh, Stirling and Heriot Watt are much further down the league tables.

@Stanleysaway

So that could mean that even with good grades, Scottish students don't get offers (and English students do)? So should a Scottish student with good highers apply to some universities which according to their websites ask for lower highers? So they could end up going to a Scottish university which is much further down the League Tables (and further down their wishlist) than they would get with similar exam results from England?

Worth remembering that the percentage of home grown students attending university is the same in England and Scotland- I can't quite remember, think it's 26 per cent. It's always the case that the most prestigious universities have a higher percentage of students from elsewhere ( think LSE, Harvard). Of course students with excellent grades should apply. I have friends and family who attended St Andrews and Edinburgh. It wasn't ever spoken about in the way it is on mumsnet - they applied and chose to go there. As I said , the percentage is the same in Scotland and England ( home grown students). If you drill into specific universities and courses, some have much less but that's the same the world over.

So that could mean that even with good grades, Scottish students don't get offers (and English students do)? So should a Scottish student with good highers apply to some universities which according to their websites ask for lower highers? So they could end up going to a Scottish university which is much further down the League Tables (and further down their wishlist) than they would get with similar exam results from England?

Just adding my thoughts on this. I'm a central belt parent. Daughter at a Uni in the city, not Glasgow or Edinburgh but we looked at Glasgow, and also Strathclyde. indeed 3 years ago she had an unconditional for Strathclyde for a language degree. Had originally wanted to go to Stirling where the degree is 4 years including the time abroad whereas at Glasgow and Strathclyde you go abroad for year 4 and back for a 5th year to do your honours year. No longer doing languages and not what was originally planned however, with regards to your comment, despite more than meeting the requirements, she was turned down by Dundee. Always good to have at least one Uni on the UCAS form where you already have the highers required in my opinion, even if it "would" probably be considered one of the "lesser" unis!

I did languages at Dundee, as did my friend - she did the four years, I didn't. It's worth looking at I think, and is a great medium size between St Andrews and a huge city.

The university where I work is heavily reliant on Chinese, American and English students for income in certain schools. They've lost a lot of that income thanks to Covid so there's been a lot more talk than normal about 'widening participation' and home students.

That seems a good option at 1st glance @YeDancer however I think the devil will be in the detail.

Presumably they will need to recruit 5 or 6 Scottish students to cover the cost of losing 1 international student. So a course loses 20 Asian students and replaces them with over 100 Scottish students. Where are they going to put them all?

I strongly suspect these courses will move to be largely online, with very little on campus labs, seminars, tutorials etc. As well as the obvious loss of social contact, practical skills and personal development, where will be the opportunities for sharing ideas, debate, developing concepts and learning from each other. These are all important aspects of a university education which current students will testify is very difficult online!

I think the university will need to be honest about what these courses are providing. Whilst this may appeal to a certain demographic I would fear for the future of these courses

well there's uproar amongst staff because apparently teaching staff need to continue to practice 1m social distancing but office staff don't.

Sounds like an excuse to keep online teaching and save money, just like you said.

I can imagine there's uproar! Why on earth do one group of staff have to social distance and another don't ?????

If they want to take on more Scottish students then, under the current model, ScotGov would need to pony up the dosh for more funded places as well as the Unis being happy to take more students at under £2k a year.

@YeDancer

The university where I work is heavily reliant on Chinese, American and English students for income in certain schools. They've lost a lot of that income thanks to Covid so there's been a lot more talk than normal about 'widening participation' and home students.

Yes , I had a lot of Chinese students on my course at Glasgow. Brexit has, of course, has had a ( wholly forceeable) impact on EU students coming to the UK to study. Re the talk of years abroad for MFL - that was doing through the Erasmus scheme which the Tories decided they didn't want the UK to be a part of. The scheme the Tories put in place instead is nowhere near as good and relies on the students to lay a lot more ( surprise, surprise). The effect of this will not be seen until we are in post Covid times.

But didn't EU students pay the same as home students? So the drop won't cause nearly as big a deficit as the drop in "international" students that @YeDancer is referring too? The Asian and American market is where certain universities raised a lot of their income.

Not everything is the fault of brexit and/or the Tories!
Covid is something else entirely!

Not everything is the fault of brexit and/or the Tories!

It is when you are dealing with the MN SNP propaganda section.

@ElephantOfRisk

Not everything is the fault of brexit and/or the Tories!

It is when you are dealing with the MN SNP propaganda section.

🤣🤣🤣

Makes a difference from the overwhelming hatred of 'Dear Leader Queen Nic'

Just read this thread and re places for Scottish students. These numbers aren’t decided by unis. They are told by the Scottish gov how many places will be funded for the entire university each year so then the university has to see how many students they have currently to see how many new students they can take that year. If they go over they don’t get any extra funding so the uni has to cover those costs and they are also penalised if they are too far under their number of funded places.