'Now we are six' documentary

[HarrisMcCoo]

Would highly recommend folk to watch this... Absolutely could change the whole landscape of education.

Thoughts?

nowwearesix.org/

Documentary can be found on this website, it's around 12 minutes long.

I will watch this. First couple of minutes seem very sensible!

I did just think, given we are on the point of moving from England to Scotland with our kids, that kids start formal school even younger in England… isn’t it the case that in England the youngest child is 4 years old on the nose, whereas in Scotland they are at least 4.5 (feb birthday) and the oldest 5.5. So to us Scotland feels more enlightened and our youngest will get an extra year in nursery on their advice - he would be starting reception here in England as quite old for reception, but instead will start P1 in 2022 very old indeed (almost 6). Anyway. I agree anything we can do to extend the learning through play phase should be encouraged.

Everything about it makes so much sense. Think of how children need time to grow into their wee bodies. They don't get that chance in the current climate. Rushed into education so young, and yes I mean in Scotland.

One of my children has just finished a deferred year at nursery - he will start P1 in August, and turn 6yo 20 days after the term commences. He needed the extra time to play and build on his communication skills as he has a speech disorder.

Your wee one will be okay at almost 6yo starting P1. I feel this is a fantastic age. We need to just let them play! Outdoor learning has been seriously undermined all this time. The whole landscape has to change in Scotland.

I don't like to click on links

What is this documentary about?

I haven't watched it but there have been detailed discussions and papers around children starting school in the UK earlier than other countries for decades, this is nothing new, ground breaking or likely to trigger a change.

I do personally believe they start formal schooling too young, I deferred ds and he didn't start P1 until 5y7m which felt about right.

Looking at it child centrically it makes complete sense that children stay at home in an idealistic supportive, loving, play based learning environment for longer, but most wouldn't be in that environment. There is a bigger picture of why it hasn't and is unlikely to change.

Bloodypunkrockers it's about looking at school starting age in Scotland. Lots of evidence out there to suggest starting formal education around 6 or 7 would be beneficial for many children.

Also looking at a kindergarten stage 3 to 6 years play based structure. Makes complete sense for such young minds. Let them be creative.

Yes, it would make more sense. We have P1s starting who cannot communicate, some in nappies and many will be overwhelmed.
Age 4 is too young in my opinion and I wouldn't choose it for my child. Many ( all?) councils allow funding for deferral. Also, a child's hand is not fully formed until age 7! I hope it does change.

It would do away with the issue of deferrals which would be brilliant. All children learning from each other in a relaxed environment. If it's a success in countries like Finland, it is no brainer for Scotland. We just need to get more emphasis on staffing early years education and funding it so that others see it as a valuable profession. As was highlighted in the documentary, if we get this stage right at the beginning, then hopefully in the long term children will have the skills to cope with life later on and not be as burdened with mental health issues.

Totally agree with children being too young starting school ... a friend of the family was saying how her just turned four year old child was ready for school as he’s ‘so bright’ and she can’t believe he has to wait another year (Scotland).... it was all I could do not to say .... ‘what’s the rush?’ and he’s emotionally really immature (for his age and stage) ..... being older is, in my opinion, better for most starting school, and better for most all the way through school.

I didn't know that StarryEyeSurprise about the ✋ learning something new every day 🙂

I’m glad this wasn’t suggested when my DC were that age. I tried to get DD into primary school a year early, as she started reading at 2, was writing stories and doing arithmetic at 4, and by the time she eventually started school at 5 had a reading age of 12.
There is no “one size fits all” model of education that will suit all children. And those from neglectful homes will fall even further behind if schooling is delayed.

Maybe there should be flexibility on starting age, based on a developmental assessment.

@mummywithtwokidsplusdog

Totally agree with children being too young starting school ... a friend of the family was saying how her just turned four year old child was ready for school as he’s ‘so bright’ and she can’t believe he has to wait another year (Scotland).... it was all I could do not to say .... ‘what’s the rush?’ and he’s emotionally really immature (for his age and stage) ..... being older is, in my opinion, better for most starting school, and better for most all the way through school.

Wow, can't imagine any of mine going in to school at 4. My older children due to birth date were over 5.4y and 5.1y starting P1. My youngest two have additional needs. One has been very "lucky" and born in a month where his deferral wasn't too much of an issue, he starts in August this year. Unfortunately my youngest isn't so lucky (August born) but I am still fighting for him and will keep trying throughout his preschool year. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

@Babdoc

I’m glad this wasn’t suggested when my DC were that age. I tried to get DD into primary school a year early, as she started reading at 2, was writing stories and doing arithmetic at 4, and by the time she eventually started school at 5 had a reading age of 12. There is no “one size fits all” model of education that will suit all children. And those from neglectful homes will fall even further behind if schooling is delayed. Maybe there should be flexibility on starting age, based on a developmental assessment.

Yes that's the whole point of the kindergarten stage. Children learn through play. Play is the child's work. Arithmetic can be found outdoors in nature.

Watching the documentary explains it all much better than I can 😂

Thank you for posting, I enjoyed this. Yes some are maybe misunderstanding- what is being proposed is a kindergarten, play based stage between nursery and starting formal education at 6 or 7. Play based learning has a huge evidence base and supports both able vulnerable children.

I agree that just delaying the start and keeping kids home would not work out well for a lot of Scottish kids. But Glasgow city council largely have adopted play based learning in p1 already, to my knowledge, and in some areas beyond.

I have a January born so had to decide whether to defer her - always expected we would as I am familiar with the better outcomes in countries who start later. However she had a peer group in the nursery moving up, she was taller than most at that stage and very articulate. We felt that the system was not set up so that an able child her could get a lot out of another year in nursery, yet equally not happy with her starting school age 4, it’s been hard for her. I have friends who have deferred who’s kids can read similarly to mine and I also wonder what that will be like, going into a class with such differences of ability. A mixed age kindergarten I think would address a lot of these issues.

Ah so glad to see someone posting about this on MN.

Have a look into Peter Grey, Teacher Tom and Jan White. All huge proponents of learning through play and the benefits for the younger years.

All evidence points to children only starting to gain from formal education at around 7 years old.

I will watch the documentary but wonder if it is related to the lobby group Upstart Scotland. They have a book "Play is the Way" which details the benefits of a longer "kindergarten" stage. From mathematical skills to social skills.

To do this we need to get rid of SNSA at the end of p1. Currently p1 in a play based learning environment still have to sit these assessments which do not match play based learning.

@mondaywine

To do this we need to get rid of SNSA at the end of p1. Currently p1 in a play based learning environment still have to sit these assessments which do not match play based learning.

The assessments take next to no time. They're really not worth a mention. They're unlike those in England.

I deferred my November born (Scotland) so he started P1 at nearly 6. Much easier for him academically and socially than for his older brother who started the day he turned 5. I do think some children aren't ready till 6/7 and starting early causes long term struggle. Properly funded pre- school with a flexible child centred approach with a later formal school start would seem to be the answer.

I love this idea and am a huge supporter of starting later. Dd has just finished 6th year so left school.
I wanted to keep her in nursery another year but as an October birthday was basically told nope we think she is ready so we wouldn’t support an application for another year in nursery funded.
Academically she probably was emotionally she really could have done with a other year. To this day I regret not fighting harder it even just moving her to another nursery where I could pay for another year.

The local authority I am in will be absolutely sick fed up hearing from me as I am now lobbying MSPs on the matter as to why some discretionary deferrals are authorised for older children and not others. I will keep on going with it as long as possible. Even if unsuccessful, it will at least plant the seed which is ultimately what is needed at the moment. Children in Scotland are not getting the best deal - it could be much better. I hope by the time my older DC have children themselves, there will be massive changes in early years education.

@LooksBetterWithAFaceMask

I love this idea and am a huge supporter of starting later. Dd has just finished 6th year so left school. I wanted to keep her in nursery another year but as an October birthday was basically told nope we think she is ready so we wouldn’t support an application for another year in nursery funded. Academically she probably was emotionally she really could have done with a other year. To this day I regret not fighting harder it even just moving her to another nursery where I could pay for another year.

I think there's still a stigma to the term "defer". Holding back. If only many realised it's such an advantage to give them time. Lots of extra time to play and be free, because once they are in the school system life will never be the same again.

My older two were both ready for school when they started - they were lucky. Not all children are the same though.

It's a shame you were discouraged from deferring your daughter. Lots do encourage it now though as there's more knowledge about the benefits. Lots of evidence out there to support it.

HarrisMcCoo, my DD was bored stiff with “learning through play” at her playgroup.
She is autistic, and wasn’t interested in playing at all - her interests were maths, piano and languages, and the acquisition of knowledge.
Her IQ was estimated at 160 and she never fitted in playing with her age group. She is now a trilingual maths graduate.
That is what I meant by saying there is no “one size fits all” method of early education. Boys tend to lag behind girls in development too, so should probably not be in the same age group at school.
Flexible start ages would make more sense than a blanket imposition.

I don’t seem to be able to quote today.

I don’t agree about the snsa taking no time. They do as they’re done 1:1 and have taken an enormous amount of my last month. I teach in a p1 class with no full time LA so when I’m doing those, I’m not supporting play or learning in the room. However the time is not my issue. It’s the clash of a play based approach, which would result in formal learning starting later for most, and asking P1s to read a ten line passage at the end of the year. Groups like Upstart Scotland have also highlighted this discrepancy. I have no issue with testing but you can’t adopt a play based approach with delayed formal learning and then expect the children to be at the same stage at the end of p1.

@Babdoc

HarrisMcCoo, my DD was bored stiff with “learning through play” at her playgroup. She is autistic, and wasn’t interested in playing at all - her interests were maths, piano and languages, and the acquisition of knowledge. Her IQ was estimated at 160 and she never fitted in playing with her age group. She is now a trilingual maths graduate. That is what I meant by saying there is no “one size fits all” method of early education. Boys tend to lag behind girls in development too, so should probably not be in the same age group at school. Flexible start ages would make more sense than a blanket imposition.

I would think your daughter is in the minority though, this isn't really the case for the majority of children who do benefit from a play based curriculum at that age. But yes, if your daughter is ready to learn maths sitting at a desk then that was the best approach in your own personal circumstances.