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OECD report on Scottish schools... damning ?

41 replies

Ianrankinfan · 21/06/2021 17:34

According to the Guardian the report on Scottish schools is “damning”
It says that the system has failed to keep pace with the latest best practice and has no long term strategies .

Recommendations include scrapping the SQA. .... which Nicola Sturgeon defended not that long ago ,...
What do you think... teachers especially... what are your views ?

OP posts:
Ianrankinfan · 21/06/2021 17:39

Here is the BBC report

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-Scotland-57526948

OP posts:
Rae36 · 21/06/2021 18:32

I'm a bit shocked by this. Did anyone see it coming? Or is it not that big a deal? We're just about to enter exam years so it feels quite important to me.

PrimulaPrimrose · 21/06/2021 18:33

It's been coming awhile.

ResilienceWanker · 21/06/2021 18:41

It is pretty bad, and I think lots of people saw it coming. It should have been published before the election, but was held back for Reasons Unknown. And obviously has been buried in the news a bit today, by Sturgeon's spat with Andy Burnham, and a footballer getting covid. Not that that was planned of course, but I'd have thought it would have been slightly bigger news. The SG are obviously highlighting the fact that there is lots in the theory of CFE to praise, and they say they will take forward the recommendations. But the whole SQA thing needing an entire revamp isn't great (especially for those going into exam years) as well as teachers having absolutely insane workloads, even by teaching standards.

Here's the report BTW

Boomisshiss · 21/06/2021 20:26

Did she not asked to be judged on education ? Time for her to stand down and let someone else try to clean up the mess they have made to education in Scotland . But then again who from the SNP could do a better job they are all useless.

Groovee · 21/06/2021 20:38

The SQA has not been fit for purpose for years.

WaysIntoUni · 21/06/2021 20:38

Really interested to hear what teachers have to say about this. I skimmed the summary and noticed there was particular concern about the senior exam years and Advanced Highers were specifically mentioned. Do you think they’re going to restructure the exam schedule? Maybe not have 3 years of consecutive exams from S4? Is the scrapping of the SQA a definite? Are they going to spend millions tinkering around with rebranding and shuffling and renaming departments but not intrinsically change anything?

I have one child going into S6 so doubt this will affect them but I have another embarking upon their S3 year - I wonder what will be in store for them?

user1487194234 · 21/06/2021 20:39

Everyone saw it coming
That's why it was delayed until after the election,and why the hapless John Swinney got moved from Education
( To Covid recovery God help us )

Babdoc · 21/06/2021 20:41

It was obvious from Scotland’s poor (and worsening) performance in the international league tables for education that the report would not be favourable.
As a pp has said, the report was delayed to hide it from the voters until after the election.
Typical SNP priorities - they care about image and soundbites, not trying to sort out the mess they’ve made of our schools.

StarryEyeSurprise · 21/06/2021 21:02

@WaysIntoUni

Really interested to hear what teachers have to say about this. I skimmed the summary and noticed there was particular concern about the senior exam years and Advanced Highers were specifically mentioned. Do you think they’re going to restructure the exam schedule? Maybe not have 3 years of consecutive exams from S4? Is the scrapping of the SQA a definite? Are they going to spend millions tinkering around with rebranding and shuffling and renaming departments but not intrinsically change anything?

I have one child going into S6 so doubt this will affect them but I have another embarking upon their S3 year - I wonder what will be in store for them?

Re the final years of BGE ( unless I've missed something) the report advised that ' chalk and talk' and learning by repititon happens during highers (but not so much for AH).

I don't see a problem with a chalk and talk approach during the last years of secondary as this tends to be the approach taken in further education settings.

Roonerspismed · 21/06/2021 21:05

Hugely saw this coming. It was delayed until after the election

“Judge me in education”. I did love, you and your tim pot government is shite and I wish you would fuck off.

Ianrankinfan · 21/06/2021 21:09

Nicola Sturgeon said she had every confidence in the SQA at the beginning of June. ... then a few HOURS later Shirley Anne Somerville said she was going to reform it. Now without having an investigation into reforming the SQA , they now announce that it is going to be scrapped. A shocking way to run an education system.

OP posts:
MichelleScarn · 21/06/2021 21:12

Are they not planning to completely remove any form of exams?

WaysIntoUni · 21/06/2021 21:49

Are they MichelleScarn?! That’s rather bold isn’t it? No student would ever be able to go to a non-Scottish Uni then if they didn’t do exams.

MiladyBerserko · 21/06/2021 21:55

The Curriculum for Excellence is shit. The SNP has ruined the Scottish Education system, and yet they are not being held to account for any of this.

MichelleScarn · 21/06/2021 22:19

@WaysIntoUni am sure I heard this on local radio today..

ResilienceWanker · 21/06/2021 22:42

Yes, apparently one of the suggestions in the report was moving to continuous assessment, which would be "more in the spirit" of CFE than exams. Which result in the "panic" of rote learning to meet the various curriculum requirements ("yes, we know CFE says schools can teach whatever they want, and you've all learnt about your local poet, but the SQA has set an exam, and is only going to ask you about Burns, so we're going to have to teach you some Burns now"). Though how that will work in practice, in terms of ensuring one school's continuous assessment is the same as another's, with no set curriculum, is another matter. I know there used to be coursework, which was somehow moderated acceptably, but that all seems very unfashionable now (in England at least, so may not be considered as an "equivalent" to A levels any more). In any case, this year's exam approach was roundly criticised by the OECD, so it probably won't be a repeat of that.

ResilienceWanker · 21/06/2021 22:46

There's another review in the Autumn apparently to address how exams could work. It's not going to be quick...

Flossy05 · 21/06/2021 23:20

How would kids cope with uni if they didn’t do exams?! And will the English unis accept their qualifications. Had hoped the senior phase might see something that vaguely resembled normal next year. And I’m sure the last thing the teaching profession need right now is big changes. Surely a system of continuous assessment would need to be developed before the academic year starts and this won’t affect the 2022 qualifications.

charliebrown59 · 22/06/2021 07:54

We'll end up with a de facto two tier system with some kids doing international qualifications as we've debased ours, and others with something that only has limited value in Scotland.

charliebrown59 · 22/06/2021 07:55

I don't understand why it's accepted that exams only test rote learning and continuous assessment somehow doesn't.

ResilienceWanker · 22/06/2021 08:31

As I understand, it's not really the issue of rote learning particularly, but that exams have a set syllabus, so every child in the country doing the exam is expected to know the same stuff. Obviously in arts/ humanities subjects, there will be a bit of flexibility (or can be, if the questions are framed to demonstrate principles etc rather than eg knowledge of an actual text or a period of history - that can be answered with reference to the text or period you DO know about) but in sciences/ maths, you need to know a certain amount of facts/ methods, or you can't be said to have an understanding of chemistry, or geometry or whatever. So pupils get crammed with this knowledge in a "rote" way in a short period of time, rather than learning by experience, or following areas that interest them.

Continuous assessment (if done properly) may be better at addressing the depth of knowledge in a particular area, rather than breadth over the whole syllabus on a set date. (By continuous assessment I'm talking more about coursework style stuff, rather than just "smaller" exams/ class tests taken more frequently). But ultimately, exams favour the kind of people who are good at exams, good at remembering facts under pressure and so on (and in most circumstances knowing that it is the candidate's work you are assessing!) whereas coursework assesses someone's actual ability to understand, assess and present their topic with access to whatever resources they need and without time pressure. So better at assessing ability to apply knowledge in the real world (imo), which is kind of what CFE was aiming for.

Obviously there are different kind of exams (practical, open book, oral etc) each with their own benefits and drawbacks. But if they are centrally set, candidates will be expected to draw from the same pool of knowledge, and if they are locally set, there is the issue of moderation of question challenge and marking between schools, which can't be an easy task.

Flossy05 · 22/06/2021 09:28

I agree that everything shouldn’t rest on one or two exams but some kids do better with assessment and others with exams. So surely any system should play to both strengths. And is it not the case that girls do better with continuous assessment and boys do better with exams? All the uncertainty in education at the moment is most unnerving.

WeAllHaveWings · 22/06/2021 09:30

Revising for and sitting his NAT5 end of course exams set ds up with the base knowledge and skills he needed to progress to Higher, then again revising the content of his subjects at Higher have set him up for the next stage. I would be concerned continuous assessment would mean topics would be ticked off early in the course and never revisited.

Supplementing learning content by doing coursework/assignments during courses, is in theory a fun and an interesting way to learn important skills such as how to analyse and evaluate, but is time consuming and very open to unfairness across schools in areas with different focus on how resources are used. ds, for example, stood a better chance studying for exams in a supportive home environment than producing a coursework in a classroom in a low performing school influenced by behaviour issues and low aspirations.

Coursework is also very open to malpractice, just look at the English folio pieces now where so many are tutor written led, I wouldn't like to see their value in final grades increasing.

ds is going into S6 this year so hopefully he'll be done before any of this is implemented.

Flossy05 · 22/06/2021 09:31

And as you say resilience, the moderation would be a huge challenge.