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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

English person moving to the Highlands

108 replies

CindyTrevaskis · 28/05/2021 10:23

So DH and I are planning to move to the Highlands in a few years. We want to open a B&B somewhere in the countryside.

We have been told that we will not be welcomed by locals from others. I have said I find this ridiculous and that this idea of ‘get out of my village’ is an outdated and judgemental view. I’ve never found an issue whenever I’ve stayed up there for holidays, everyone is always lovely.

Please tell me I’m right and that it won’t be a problem? I’ve loved Scotland since I was a little girl and this is my absolute dream.

OP posts:
Calmdown14 · 28/05/2021 18:37

I've had no problems in the north-east although the behaviour of incomers is subject to greater scrutiny.
On the whole it is lovely and friendly.
Are you planning to take over an existing business? That probably comes with less grief than potentially turning what will be deemed a family home into tourist accommodation.
Have you considered the Moray Firth? So many people stationed at the air bases have stayed and it's very friendly.
I think it is people coming from big cities with an unrealistic view of the Highlands who then moan about problems they should have anticipated that go down badly

jmh740 · 28/05/2021 18:49

My husband is from the Highlands, I dont feel very welcome when we visit his town, I dont like to go to the shops on my own as feel my English accent highlights my non belonging I go to the shops with oh and make him do all the talking, in the more touristy places its fine but in his town/village and the surrounding areas I feel uncomfortable and oot of place.

ThistlesandHarebells · 28/05/2021 19:10

I'm Scottish, married to an Englishman. He has never experienced any anti English behaviour in all his many years living here. In my experience of travelling around the Highlands, or many other parts of the country, you’ll be hard pushed to find many Scots. Many, many small businesses seem these days to be run by non locals.

Blurberoo · 28/05/2021 19:20

Really sorry to hear you feel so unwelcome, @jmh740. I hope your experiences improve.

I feel the problem of anti incomer feeling in the highlands and elsewhere in rural Scotland is more to do with rural gentrification, same as in Cornwall etc. Shops that used to stock fray bentos and lightbulbs now stock olives and sourdough, local folk are priced out of the market and resentment festers as people feel shut out of the communities where they grew up and feel a belonging to.
The problem can be compounded when middle class incomers immediately join the community council etc and start making decisions on behalf of the community. This happens so often! I think it’s a cultural thing, and maybe comes from a place of wanting to integrate and ‘do ones bit’ but comes across as bossy and ill informed. Mutterings result. It happens all the time.

jmh740 · 28/05/2021 19:26

@Blurberoo

Really sorry to hear you feel so unwelcome, *@jmh740*. I hope your experiences improve.

I feel the problem of anti incomer feeling in the highlands and elsewhere in rural Scotland is more to do with rural gentrification, same as in Cornwall etc. Shops that used to stock fray bentos and lightbulbs now stock olives and sourdough, local folk are priced out of the market and resentment festers as people feel shut out of the communities where they grew up and feel a belonging to.
The problem can be compounded when middle class incomers immediately join the community council etc and start making decisions on behalf of the community. This happens so often! I think it’s a cultural thing, and maybe comes from a place of wanting to integrate and ‘do ones bit’ but comes across as bossy and ill informed. Mutterings result. It happens all the time.

I've been visiting for 15 years now and have always felt the same, we used to stay with the pil throughout the year, sadly they have both passed away now.
GintyMcGinty · 28/05/2021 19:31

My husband is English and has lived in Scotland for 25 years. In Fife, Lothians and Dumfries & Galloway and never experienced any problems with anti-Englishness.

I am not familiar with the Highlands though.

CindyTrevaskis · 29/05/2021 10:05

Thank you to everyone who has given honest and insightful responses, I really appreciate it.

We have w few years of saving to do first, so I will keep an eye on different places and the economy and see where might be best. I hope those of you in Scotland know we only want to come because we love it so much! X

OP posts:
womaninatightspot · 29/05/2021 10:21

I live in the Highlands and we are a friendly bunch. Most b and bs only operate in the season though April to October. Even hotels close Jan and Feb unless close to skiing. Best to have a back up business you run in the winter

partyatthepalace · 29/05/2021 10:56

I think pick somewhere that is touristy anyway and is used to new people. Start going there regularly if possible, get to know people. Rent for a year (doing what you do now) then if it’s all working out buy and crack on.

Honeycombskl · 01/06/2021 15:20

I'm in Moray and previously lived in the Highlands and Glasgow. To be honest I've witnessed a lot of anti-English sentiment up here and it's getting worse. There are actually a lot of English people where I am and whilst little would be said to people's faces, a lot is said when they are not around. I think it's a mix of factors, people wanting independence and feeling that the more English people living here voting, the less likely we are to get it as they are less likely to be pro-independence, people moving from wealthier areas and pricing out locals, areas becoming based purely around tourists due to B&Bs and tourist-based businesses which means towns are dead when tourists aren't around and businesses are based around tourists rather than the needs of locals. It's not nice but I definitely regularly hear negative comments directed at others and there is less of them towards people from other places than there are towards the English.

Maria53 · 01/06/2021 15:23

I think will it depend entirely on where you live and im sure you'll get a better perspective from those who live there.

My friends are from Orkney, one moved as a child and has an English accent and her mother is English. They have received some anti-English sentiment over the years. My other friends family don't much like English people moving there - they had a bad experience with a posh woman moving up and trying to take over the local council.

PineappleTart · 01/06/2021 15:30

As others have said it's less anti-English and more about properties being bought up and used as second homes so locals can no longer afford to live locally. Of course buying a b&b or a house big enough to be a b&b is likely to be out with lots of local budgets anyway.

I've found there are two kinds of people who move to Scotland, those who've been often and have researched and visited lots and fit in. Then there are those who get caught up in the romance of the highlands while never truly appreciating the realities and those can be HARSH of living remotely

TidyOmlette · 01/06/2021 15:37

Some areas are like this especially the further north you go. As others have said it’s mostly due to people buying property especially in high profile areas which make housing for locals difficult.

I would advise trying to holiday in the area a few times to make sure it’s really what you want.

TidyOmlette · 01/06/2021 15:48

@IntermittentParps

Refusing to serve non locals during the lockdown isn’t disgusting. Lots of tiny remote villages only had COVID cases because of tourists ignoring the no travel guidance.

My MIL’s village was one of them. They were doing great and had no cases until a family from Portsmouth appeared for 2 weeks and brought it with them.

cctvrec · 01/06/2021 16:00

I live in SW Scotland and have done for half my life, and I'm English. I love it. It's really, really welcoming and I've hardly had anyone be rude except during that fucking neverendum where I heard some things that were awful (and complete nonsense to boot).

I would never leave here. I love this place. I have even created a few mini Scottish people too. Grin

Now I will say, there have been one or two (English) that have come (swooped in) acting horribly, looking down on the locals, telling them how things should be done, trying to 'improve' the area (aka painting murals on deer stalking hides to 'brighten up the place' and introduce the locals to some 'art and culture') and they've been told to get tae fuck.
Not a single local will set foot in what was once a thriving hotel/restaurant after a stuck up Southern chef bought it and declared everyone to be inbred ingrates who wouldn't know good Scottish food if he slapped them in the face with it. He's so unwelcome he won't set foot into the village or near any of the shops.

If you move to a small town or village (Scottish or not), you'll likely be fine as long as you're not a dick Wink
Highlands might be a little more difficult to crack initially but as long as you are friendly and make an effort, it might work just fine.

Editedby · 01/06/2021 16:30

I know an English couple who retired (early) to a village in the Cairngorms. They realised after a while they were bored and needed an income top up and both got jobs in local shops/cafes. It’s created huge resentment from locals towards both the locals and the shop owners. The shops aren’t traditional little shops but more commercial. There are plenty of locals to fill those jobs.

Scottishskifun · 01/06/2021 16:39

@Editedby

I know an English couple who retired (early) to a village in the Cairngorms. They realised after a while they were bored and needed an income top up and both got jobs in local shops/cafes. It’s created huge resentment from locals towards both the locals and the shop owners. The shops aren’t traditional little shops but more commercial. There are plenty of locals to fill those jobs.
This is ridiculous people should be employed on their own merit not the fact they have been born in a village!
Bytheloch · 01/06/2021 17:03

The fact we even have a thread about this tells you everything you need to know about so-called modern Scotland.
Anglophobia is rife. Shameful.

shallIswim · 01/06/2021 17:14

we (English) were on Harris two weeks ago (gorgeous by the way) and there were loads of English living there and running businesses and also married into the community. It seemed utterly normal.

FourteenthDoctor · 01/06/2021 17:28

Why aren't local people getting the jobs that the 'newcomers' are then?

This thread is depressing and to be honest I'm upset by it. Scotland is definitely not (mostly) selling itself to me and I've been planning a visit!

Bloodypunkrockers · 01/06/2021 19:47

@cctvrec

I live in SW Scotland and have done for half my life, and I'm English. I love it. It's really, really welcoming and I've hardly had anyone be rude except during that fucking neverendum where I heard some things that were awful (and complete nonsense to boot).

I would never leave here. I love this place. I have even created a few mini Scottish people too. Grin

Now I will say, there have been one or two (English) that have come (swooped in) acting horribly, looking down on the locals, telling them how things should be done, trying to 'improve' the area (aka painting murals on deer stalking hides to 'brighten up the place' and introduce the locals to some 'art and culture') and they've been told to get tae fuck.
Not a single local will set foot in what was once a thriving hotel/restaurant after a stuck up Southern chef bought it and declared everyone to be inbred ingrates who wouldn't know good Scottish food if he slapped them in the face with it. He's so unwelcome he won't set foot into the village or near any of the shops.

If you move to a small town or village (Scottish or not), you'll likely be fine as long as you're not a dick Wink
Highlands might be a little more difficult to crack initially but as long as you are friendly and make an effort, it might work just fine.

You've hit the nail on the head about not being a dick

We've had English people move in and then take over the parent council (calling themselves governors) and getting everybody's backs up with their superiority

Act nice and you'll be as welcome as the next person

WouldBeGood · 02/06/2021 10:16

I think the SW is better as it’s near England so many English people living there, and a trip to Carlisle is normal for shopping.
My old village’s hotel was taken over and run by an English family who’ve been great, real stalwarts of the community.

But my ds gets called an English cunt at school, because he has his dad’s accent. He was young at the time of the referendum and it was awful. Things to bear in mind.

As well as what others have said about everything being shut in the winter. It’s a long winter with no local cafes or restaurants let alone if you’re trying to earn a crust.

Also think about the potential economic consequences of Scexit and potentially having to convert your pension/mortgage into a different currency, plus the border issue.

I love Scotland and am Scottish through and through but it’s problematic living here just now, sadly.

NotSoLongGoodbye · 02/06/2021 10:25

OP I would really think about it because of the likelihood of another referendum / potential independence. The nationalist sentiment up here in general is getting worse IMO. I've lived in Scotland 27 years and I'm seriously thinking of leaving because I find it all so divisive and somewhat insular.

deveronvalley · 02/06/2021 11:29

We moved to a small village north of Inverness from SE England when I was a kid in the late 1980s. We were not toffs, my Dad was a welder and Mum mostly had care home jobs. Nobody talked to my Dad in the works canteen for about 5 years, my older sister was bullied horribly at the high school and constantly called "fing English," as I younger kid I quickly and deliberately picked up a passable local accent as a survival mechanism. My Mum still talks about the annual nativities at the primary school, 3 years on the trot, where she had a whole row of seats to herself while other parents crammed around standing at the edge rather than sit near her. On the drive to nearest town an old disused barn had "ENGLISH FCK OFF" graffitied on it, though I don't think that was meant for us personally as it was there when we moved there! All a long time ago now of course!

FeistySheep · 02/06/2021 13:47

It can be the case. But I think genuinely it probably depends on the people moving in.

Try to look at it the way that many local people might see it... Imagine you've been born and raised somewhere where you know everybody and are related to lots of people. Your culture is quite different to most of the UK (even non-Highland Scotland). I'm not talking about 'kitsch' culture, but everyday culture, like a different sense of humour, walking into people's homes without knocking, being really laid back so that you take a year to get round to the job you said you'd do, going above and beyond to help random neighbours etc etc. There are lots and lots of small things like this that are different in the Highlands. I didn't realise they weren't standard until I lived away for a while in my early twenties! That was a shock!

Now imagine this place you're from being flooded by people from outside it moving in. At first you're really not bothered; a few people can't change the local dynamic and it's nice to see new faces. But they don't quite fit in; they appear to on the surface - everyone is polite etc. But they don't quite get the sense of humour, so you have to tiptoe around them a bit or they're offended. They are horrified when the electrician/plumber they've booked doesn't turn up for weeks and get all shouty and demanding. They lock all their doors and windows and cars and generally think someone might steal their stuff. They will help out neighbours, but only if it doesn't inconvenience them too much and only if there's a sort of fair helping-out trade (generalisation I know).

When there are one or two people in a village who are from a different culture (and rest-of-UK is a different culture, no matter how it appears on the outside) it doesn't really matter. But when they come in droves, there's enough of them to change the social dynamic. And then, your generations-old locals see their culture changing and being eroded before their eyes. And the 'incomers' don't even realise they've done it, because they don't see the under-the-surface culture which is there. It makes local people sad.

My point is, by all means move to the Highlands. BUT be aware that you are contributing to the erosion of this subtle Highland culture, and tread lightly. If your plumber doesn't turn up, just leave a friendly reminder message. If people walk into your house, don't mind it. If people don't necessarily invite you into their friendship groups, they might not be deliberately excluding you; they might just have a gang of friends that they've spent all their lives with and they are quite happy. They just might not particularly want to work hard to include someone who might not quite get their sense of humour and to whom they are going to have to explain cultural references for years because there are so many, and who is going to continue pronouncing all the placenames wrong despite their best efforts.

I hope I've explained that okay. I am not anti-incomer, but there are definitely good ones and bad ones!

There are some more practical considerations too...

First, consider housing. You might move from a place like a city/town, where you've been able to get a well-paying job (by which I mean more than £25k). You've therefore built up a good stash of money / bought a house. You then decide to move to the Highlands, where local people often have low-paying jobs (min wage) and where, historically, house prices were in line with this poor job market. No longer the case. Incomers have greater buying power and can often therefore outbid locals. You might have bought the house that two local families also put an offer in on, but they couldn't match the wealth that you've built up coming from a place with better job opportunities. Maybe one of their grandparents originally built the house and it has great sentimental value. You have a legal right to buy it, but be sensitive to the fact that others might have wanted it. Don't bang on about it.

Second, people don't flash wealth here. It's distasteful, so don't do that. Flashy cars are the preserve of the occasional young idiot who's just passed his test.

Third, directly related to your B&B dream! You might want to consider that if this is the only way you intend to earn money, you won't integrate very well. The non-locals who fit into the community best long-term are the ones who move in pre-retirement and get local jobs, so people get to know them. The Co-op is great for this! Everyone will see you there :) There's usually plenty of seasonal work in the Highlands, so if you get a job in the Co-op or somewhere tourist-based, you won't be considered as 'taking a local's job'. I've never really heard anyone talking about incomers taking jobs anyway; it's more the housing people focus on.

I hope it helps - genuinely trying to be helpful, not negative :)