Does your school allow for 3 sciences at Nat 5?

[OptionsShmoptions]

I’ve posted about this before because I saw this coming months ago. Finally got our options columns from school. DD (S2) has categorically stated that she loves science and wants to do all 3. I explained that her school might not allow this and that she’d probably need to do 2 at Nat 5 and if she was still interested in studying the ‘missing’ science, then she can do it as a Higher in S5 - to which she replied ‘but then won’t I have to be in a class with pupils who maybe had studied it for 2 years already?’ and I said yes. She quite rightly thinks it’s stupid that she can’t study it now.

She is absolutely adamant and it’s totally coming from her. The school she’s at allows for a total of 8 Nat 5s (including Maths and English). She’s choosing an Expressive Subject, a Social Studies subject, a Language and then wants to do all 3 sciences. This means she’s not choosing any subject from the Technologies column and is picking 3 from the ‘Additional’ column instead of 2.

I know already that I have a battle on my hands and that maybe timetables will simply not allow it but I’m going to have a go. All these initiatives to get girls into STEM seem a bit hollow if you’re telling enthusiastic pupils to do IT & Admin or Business and Computing instead.

So my question is: does your school allow its pupils to take all 3 sciences at Nat 5?

Yes. But our school only offers 6 Nat 5s so if you took three sciences and maths and English you would only have one other choice. Someone I knew took all of these subjects plus computer science and this was still acceptable.

Thanks Aurea

Yes, we're in North Lanarkshire and dd took all 3 sciences last year in her s2 options. Fast forward to s3 and she's thinking of dropping physics - they drop 1 subject at the end of s3.
3 sciences are a lot of work - we tried telling dd this last year but she was certain she wanted to do them.........she now wishes she'd given it more thought.
Better 2 sciences and getting high grades in them than scraping passes in 3.

DDs' school and where I teach would allow this. Pupils would need to have shown an aptitude and be able to explain career aspirations as it would not be encouraged.

Yes, allowed at my dc school - quite s bit of flexibility; they do 8 subjects at nat 5

Yes, both at the school I teach in and at my DC school. I would only recommend for someone with a clear aptitude for science. My two children did all 3 at N5 and at Higher. As they had a more science/maths brain easier for them than taking other subjects. So really depends on the individual young person. I am probably biased as followed a science based path myself but STEM is always well regarded.

Yes, we’re in Fife and our school allows this although it’s not encouraged

@OptionsShmoptions I don’t have experience at Nat5, I did SGs and Highers but I was in your DDs shoes and was not allowed to take all 3 sciences at SG level 🙄 Definitely give it a shot with the school. I was forced to take Geography instead of a 3rd science.
Just to give her a bit of reassurance...I took biology at higher having never sat the standard grade and it was absolutely fine 😊 if she has a brain for science then she’ll manage that no problem if it comes to it 😊

My son in S3 has just chosen the three sciences for Nat 5 and was encouraged to do so. He is also doing Engineering science and geography in addition to maths and English. All very science focussed and the school have no issue with that. He plans to do medicine but may do something with maths instead.
I have heard that many schools don’t offer three sciences or discourage it. Apparently lots of pupils ‘crash’ a Higher and Biology is generally the easiest to crash. Maybe that’s an option.
As a scientist myself, I did all three at GCSE and A-level and I can’t understand why schools in Scotland are not supporting pupils to do all three.

Yeah, my S2-going-into-S3 could. He didn't want to do Biology, but it was an option.

Not as standard but DD was determined to do 3 sciences and we helped her fight her corner. She got her way. I think it’s wrong to not allow it. No point in forcing someone to do a language when there are not interested and aren’t great at it to the detriment of them being naturally good at science. And vice versa.

Really depends on your school and the resources they have. At ours it is a complete no for deviating from columns. It just doesn't work for the complex timetables and the resources they have. What happens when they have pupils that want to do all 3 humanities too?

If you want 3 sciences they recommend physics and chemistry in S4/S5, then crash biology higher in S6.

I'm not saying don't try to fight for it, but be ready with arguments or solutions to the problems the school will have, and strong reasons why she needs all 3 sciences (she has already shown the aptitude and has the ambition to aim for medicine/veterinary or something that needs 3 sciences) rather than she just likes then over other subjects.

Thanks all.

I think it’s sad that they may not accommodate a student even trying all 3 sciences. Someone said that it’s quite a lot of work to do all 3 at Nat 5 and that’s something to consider. But if that was the case maybe she could drop it at Nat 5 and change to something else in S4 ( if that’s possible to do at Higher surely possible at Nat 5?) Her knowledge of Science has been severely hampered, losing 4 months of S1 and 4 months of S2 due to the Lockdown.

I want my child to actually have an education not to fixate on playing the exam system. Her DS was supposed to be doing his Highers this year - I’m so disappointed in the CfE after seeing him through his Nat 5s - so much teaching around formulaic answering and working out the SQA Marking system rather than fostering a genuine interest or passion for the subject.

At least I know that her school is proving to be the exception in this approach. We’re in Glasgow so not sure if this is widespread in other Glasgow schools?

No, ours didn't. Timetabling didn't allow it. Dd did 2 instead. They only took 7 Nat5s though

They can always do the other one at Nat5 in S5 - don't have to go straight to a higher if they didn't do it in S4.

I’d be really surprised if your school allow deviation from the columns, as this makes timetabling very difficult. It’s a bit shit they don’t arrange the columns to allow it. At least your DD has 8 choices - so many schools only allow 7 or even 6 these days, I think it’s outrageous. At least the flexibility of S6 allows the possibility to add an extra if she’s still keen. I think you should def talk to the school about it, but to be honest I don’t fancy your chances.

Just wondering why people say that doing the 3 sciences is a lot of work at Nat 5. Do all the subjects not have a equitable workload? Why would science have more?

Columns are also designed to encourage a broad choice in the earlier years of secondary. The pupil desperate to do 3 sciences now (or their parents push them in that direction) may develop an interest in humanities or creative later, or find they don't have the aptitude for science and have strengths they didn't realise earlier in other areas and have burnt their bridges focusing on science alone.

Ours don't allow it. However they do allow 3 sciences at Higher with the 3rd (usually Biology) being a crash. I think this is a decent compromise because it encourages breadth at Nat 5 and once you have 2 in hand the other is complementary rather than a whole subject from scratch. The other option is to leave the 3rd science as a crash Higher in S6 which is what mine did and is pretty standard.

I actually think it is less work to do 3 Nat 5 sciences because it is narrowing.

Just wanted to add, having read the Op again, that both my DDs are doing science degrees at Ancient Unis having done 2 Nat 5 science and then 3 science Highers later on. Mine only did 7 Nat 5s and that still felt like more work and pressure than the 5 Highers in S5 and the 3 AHs plus a crash Higher in S6.

I’m not sure how my DD would show a particular talent for science? She’s got an interest for sure but I think it’s definitely one of those subjects that suffered the most over Lockdown. Maths, English, History etc... has mostly been done OK via remote learning but science has been poor without all the interactive experiments and practical elements. I think if she had to choose a tech subject she’d go for Design and Manufacture but unfortunately that’s got a bit of a reputation in school for attracting the more ‘difficult to engage’ mainly male students - which is a real shame because theoretically it should be a great subject.

I hear the word ‘breadth’ used quite often to describe the BGE bit of the CfE. I see the CfE as more of an exam funnel that narrows options down at far too early a stage but I know schools all interpret it differently don’t they?

Realistically I think she’ll have to do the Biology as a crash Higher but I’ll have a go at seeing whether the school can jiggle things around timetable-wise. She says there’s quite a few people who have said they want to do all 3 so if that’s the case there may be room to manoeuvre.

Interestingly our school didn’t have columns. They asked pupils what subjects they wanted to do and built the timetable around that. I’m sure a few didn’t get exactly what they wanted but the head of year said that it maximised most pupils getting what they wanted.
With most schools only offering 6/7 Nat 5s there isn’t much scope for breadth if the pupil is already focused on a career that requires a focus on certain subjects. This is a criticism of the CfE.

Yes, three possible but not encouraged here.... I get the whole ‘breadth’ thing, but equally some kids just love certain subject areas!

Yes they do, my son was going to do 3 but also wanted to do computing science so he’d have had to drop that.

Yes ours does but they advise against it, and to choose a wider range of subjects.

Even people who are 100% sure they want to do medicine or vet medicine don't need all three. And by choosing a very science based curriculum then you're painting yourself into a corner in terms of future choices.