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Original poster

How can a panel of 20 people have so much influence? Zero Covid

59 replies

makingitupaswegoon · 18/02/2021 11:12

So news this morning said that the COVID-19 committee wants a zero covid approach. And this is based on a panel of 20, yes 20 people from across Scotland. Surely it is completely unethical to define public policy based on a steering group of random academics and 20 people. link to report here www.parliament.scot/20210218CVDCitizensPanelReportFinal.pdf

How on earth do people like myself who are worried about long term harms of lockdowns and such an approach ever get our views known and listened to? I still maintain this is a virus that mutates and is so widespread that unless we never plan to leave Scotland again we have no hope of being Zero Covid.

Apologies if there is another thread on this - couldn't see one

OP posts:
MaxNormal · 18/02/2021 13:29

Maybe I'm overreacting and it's the lockdown anxiety talking - we'll see what happens after May

I really hope so. I am becoming slightly paranoid I think, a year of mostly staring at four walls worrying myself sick and my mental health is creaking now. I think just knowing it's an option and I'm not completely powerless somehow helps soothe me a bit.

MrsAvocet · 18/02/2021 13:31

I'm very concerned too. I'm on the English side of the border but my DD lives in Scotland and I hate the idea of potentially not seeing her for years .It's already been too long. Plus my DH works for Scottish company. He's always worked mainly from home, going up to the office once or twice a week and has been working exclusively from home since the start of the first lockdown. It's been ok - better in some ways from the family perspective - but I don't know if his company will be happy with that arrangement indefinitely. And my DS has applied to some Scottish universities - how would that work? Fortunately he is keen to take a gap year so hopefully it will be sorted out by then but there must be huge numbers of people similarly affected. Particularly in the Borders, a lot of people live on one side and work on the other so the effects of more or less closing the border would be very serious for many.
Zero covid sounds unattainable to me. Ok, I only have what's on the news to go on but a lot of scientists seem to be saying that it will become like the flu and will always be tgere in the background with intermittent more serious outbreaks. If that is the case how van any country really reach zero? Obviously it has to be contained as much as possible and we've already seen the effects of relaxing restrictions too quickly but we cannot live like this long term as the effects, economic and otherwise, are too severe.

anon444877 · 18/02/2021 14:00

Scotland can fine people for travelling to England though if they can catch you. @DisappointingAvocado same here and really not enjoying this 'Scotland' v 'abroad'. I'm trying not to panic and thinking their stance may change as time goes on. We have zero relatives here.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 18/02/2021 14:35

As much as I like living here, we will be moving if they expect us to essentially lockdown for multiple years whilst the rest of the world opens up. At this rate I'll never see my grandmother's grave, having missed her funeral due to lockdown.

anon444877 · 18/02/2021 14:41

It'll be a very clear signal if we get to summer and people living in Scotland with family in Scotland can see their family indoors, on holidays in Scotland etc but anyone with family in rUK is not allowed to.

MaxNormal · 18/02/2021 14:53

Should we all club together and buy somewhere? At least we'd get a nice summer down south....

anon444877 · 18/02/2021 15:27

Think that's a good idea max, buying a home elsewhere maybe the only legal loophole left!

MaxNormal · 18/02/2021 15:36

We've just repainted the kitchen. Got a couple more bits to sort out with the house but if this is still a fast train to zero covid crazyland come later in spring it's going on the market.
Will give me an excuse to travel as well for house viewings, win win.

Original poster
makingitupaswegoon · 18/02/2021 17:18

I suppose I am worried because most of our family are in England including my 82 year MiL who deteriorated massively in first lockdown. We’ve seen her once in 15 months - this is unacceptable.

I’m also concerned about the long-term loss of civil liberties and freedoms - i had no problem with emergency measures and restrictions in a crisis situation but now? Have to say I am deeply concerned. Not to mention the disaster that is the Scottish Education system (but that’s a whole other thread)

OP posts:
GoldenOmber · 18/02/2021 17:24

I’m also concerned about the long-term loss of civil liberties and freedoms - i had no problem with emergency measures and restrictions in a crisis situation but now? Have to say I am deeply concerned

Yes same here (and also family out of the country who I’m really missing).

Seems like there’s a real blurring of two very different things here. Would it have been a good idea to push for this strategy while we waited for vaccines, like New Zealand? (maybe - personally I wish we’d tried). And then: Is it a good idea to do this indefinitely after we have vaccines? Whole different thing.

It’s like saying: well, it was a good idea to evacuate the building when the fire alarm was going off, so now we need to stay outside forever in case there’s another fire one day.

ShowmetheSnowdrops · 18/02/2021 17:28

I was watching one of my Ddogs dig a hole in the garden this afternoon.

Perhaps I should start tunnelling here in Englandshire and If you guys get digging in Scotland, we could (quite literally) start an underground movement.

Thanks for the offers of flowers for my DF grave from some of you lovely, kind people.
It’s not like me to express something so personal in this way, it all just got to me today.
If there are any Scotsnetters in Arran, I’m giving you a big wave.

Graffitiqueen · 18/02/2021 19:18

My PIL are elderly and live in England. DFIL has health issues. There is no way we will accept not seeing them for their last few years on their planet.

If this zero covid strategy is going to be their strategy then they will have a riot on their hands.

As others have said I have complied with emergency short term measures but this is going too far. They will have to arrest me as we will be going to see my PIL.

Graffitiqueen · 18/02/2021 19:21

This actually has me feeling quite panicky and claustrophobic.

MoltenLasagne · 18/02/2021 19:38

Can they actually do this though? I know that health is a devolved matter but pursuing zero Covid if rUK don't will require internal borders.

How does that work with the many companies that are UK wide and people who work across the border in either direction?

theotherfossilsister · 18/02/2021 19:40

I'm so worried. My parents live in France and dad is eighty. I just want to see them again. I don't mind quarantining but to hotel is punitively expensive

anon444877 · 18/02/2021 20:16

Well they can keep us in our council areas otherwise we are breaking the law so I expect they can keep us in Scotland or risk a fine.

Work travel is essential so presumably allowed.

Jodhpurs46 · 18/02/2021 20:21

I am troubled by this thread -I haven’t read the report yet (I will later). Is it saying that even travel between the UK nations would be subject to restrictions? We have no family in Scotland- they are all in Northern Ireland and England. We haven’t seen any of them for over a year. The only thing keeping my widowed father going is the thought of seeing his only two grandchildren.
Seems somewhat unscientific to think that the views of 19 Scots could represent the whole population!

Scottishskifun · 18/02/2021 21:49

The panel recommended aiming for elimination, they aren't the Scottish government.
They didn't recommend limiting travel between England and Scotland but I think many are assuming this will be the case because of the current travel restrictions under covid legislation. This is different from closing the border.

There are a long list of exemptions however. I'm in a similar position our family is in England we will be travelling down at some point when they are in a position to see more than one person outside. If we get stopped we will just state one of the exemptions. I think the Scottish government is well aware they aren't going to be able to enforce no travel once England and Scotland are out of lock down situations! It will cause a huge backlash by many and with a election not sure they will risk that one!

MoltenLasagne · 18/02/2021 21:49

@anon444877

Well they can keep us in our council areas otherwise we are breaking the law so I expect they can keep us in Scotland or risk a fine.

Work travel is essential so presumably allowed.

Yes but surely you can't get zero covid if work travel is allowed. Its not like the virus says "oh that bloke's off to a conference in London, I'll steer clear and pick on the ones visiting family instead."
anon444877 · 18/02/2021 21:52

They did say no travel in Scotland or abroad at Easter - that wording. And a possible 'staycation' in the Summer.

We'll have to see what happens.

WaxOnFeckOff · 18/02/2021 21:56

@anon444877

They did say no travel in Scotland or abroad at Easter - that wording. And a possible 'staycation' in the Summer.

We'll have to see what happens.

"Twisting" it then, if we can't go abroad or in Scotland, then rUK is fair game?
lljkk · 18/02/2021 21:56

There are Scottish MPs, right... No more travel for them to Westminster?

How many oil workers in Scotland actually have family homes in England?

Would this be the new excuse for why Scotland can't win at rugby -- their team unable to travel to international tournaments, anyway?

beepbeeprichie · 18/02/2021 22:05

Did these 19 people have any knowledge or experience of how “short sharp lockdowns” would impact shops and restaurants’ ability to manage their supply chains, perishable stock, staff rotas? Hoteliers’ bookings? Non-urgent medical appointments? Beauticians/ therapists? The lack of economic considerations is astounding. Not to mention mental health. We take note of 19 random people (albeit well intentioned ones) and we’ve ignored what Sir Hugh Pennington has had to say for the last year because he isn’t a successionist.

But then I guess the scorched earth that’s left will be blamed on a lack of “levers” and Westminster.

OldRailer · 18/02/2021 22:13

I have to say I have no idea what Sir Hugh Pennington has said about this situation!

WaxOnFeckOff · 18/02/2021 22:35

@OldRailer

I have to say I have no idea what Sir Hugh Pennington has said about this situation!
I don't think he is SNP so was side-lined years ago. That said he must be a decent age now so may no longer be working.