Catholic primary - what are your thoughts?

[wellhelloyou]

Which Catholic primary do you think is best in Scotland? If you had the opportunity to live anywhere (aside from Glasgow) where would you send your child?

Do Catholic primary schools in Scotland have high fees?

I think you need to do a bit more research. Scotland is a big place with probably 100s of Catholic primary schools. Narrow down a location and then look at the schools.

Generally you don't visit schools in Scotland before making a choice, it's not the done thing, you take your catchment school (each address will have an allocated Catholic school and a non-dom school) unless you have a specific reason for a placement request elsewhere. Even then schools probably wouldn't accommodate a visit even in non-covid times. They just don't have the staff for it.

We don't have ofsted here either so you can ignore the previous comment about 'outstanding' schools.

Thanks for your input @Invisimamma

Sounds very different to Australia. Here you make an appointment with the Head and they show you around the school and give you all information you need. This would be for a private school (Catholic schools here are private (AFAIK)), I believe it's called an Independent school in Scotland? The fees generally aren't as high for a Catholic school as they are for other private schools.

Sounds like things are quite different in Scotland.

Yeah, sorry Ofsted isn't relevant although OP did mention that she'd looked at league tables and they are a similar kind of measure.

You will get that with private schools here too, or open days. State schools will have open days - for the p1 intake and again for starting secondary.
It's just such a big area (smaller than Australia, but still!) for example Edinburgh has over 80 primary schools.

Thanks. Looks like I'll be doing a huge amount of research over the coming year! Appreciate everyone's thoughts.

If anyone felt up to sharing personal views about a particular primary (Catholic or otherwise) I'd be grateful to hear it too.

We did school visits back for our oldest DD (who's now 20). Only actually ended up doing one properly because we'd already seen a lot of the primary that her nursery was attached to and when we visited the school I went to as a child (which is a catholic primary) it felt like going home and that was that... But pre-covid as far as I know all our local schools would have either allowed visits or had general open days/evenings for parents.

If you really want to start location-hunting by primary school then the best place to start is probably local authority websites? Most should have a list of schools and while lookng for a "Saint" name isn't a full-proof method it's a good starting point. For example, Highland Council is a HUGE rural area so has loads of schools but because most of them are small there are very few catholic schools (www.highland.gov.uk/directory/66/schools/category/541).

I have family at private Catholic schools in Australia - our education systems are worlds apart. It's probably best to get your head round the education system generally in Scotland first.

Children start school younger here than in Australia and you'll need to consider what primary years your DC will move into, and how that compares to what stage they are currently at. e.g. children born between April 2016 and February 2017 will start Primary 1 this coming August.

@AnnaFiveTowns

Please don't base your school choice on league tables and Ofsted reports. Every school I've known that has been "outstanding" according to Ofsted has been a very toxic place for children; the worst school I've ever worked in was an "outstanding" Catholic school; the children were emotional wrecks with eating disorders and self-harm through the ceiling. It's so difficult as parents to make the right choice but don't rely on Ofsted.

OFSTED doesn’t exist in Scotland!!! We have The Care Inspectorate and HMiE.

i'd not start with schools to be honest. I'd look at what you want in a place to live e.g. access to the city, walks on your doorstep, hills, sea, culture etc.. Then think about your budget and where you need to be for work. Unless you are very tied to a catholic education then just look at the local schools and catchments from there. Most primary schools in most areas where you are buying a house with a decent budget will be similar. You can teach Catholicism at home and via church.

Once you have a general idea then you can ask people for their local view? Most people only really experience one primary so it's difficult to compare and equally some folk will be very happy with a school that someone else hates.

So ideally what are you looking for in terms of environment of where you want to live? Any idea on budget? Any limitations for work reasons?

In Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen City there are no Catholic secondary schools. There are 2 Catholic primary schools in the City and as far as I'm aware children from the Shire go to those - certainly from south of the City. I'm not sure about provision north of the City.
In Moray ( afaik) there are catholic primaries in Elgin and Forres but again no Catholic secondaries.

Fernhill is a private Catholic school south Lanarkshire. It is small and is probably at risk of closure.
St Aloysius is the main private Catholic school for the areas around Glasgow. Lots of kids travel a long way in from very rural areas as it's in the city centre so easily accessible.

In small towns in the west coast where there are both Catholic and non Dom schools the Catholic schools tend to be much smaller which has advantages in being more personal but they usually have more composite classes.

It is quite common for parents to go non Dom for secondary as some councils only have one Catholic secondary and they don't want their DC's having a long journey.

The top league table Catholic secondary is ST Ninians in Giffnock but they are very strict on catchment and being in a feeder primary.

The further north and east you go Catholic schools become non existent.

It is normal with private schools in Scotland to go and visit either on open day or private tour. Not so common in state schools but some do. HOWEVER, no one is allowing visits at present due to Covid.

Private school fees are approx between £9000 and £10,000 per year for primary. As has been mentioned there are VERY few private catholic schools in Scotland, most of them are non- denominational.

I visited DD’s school in advance, which was a Catholic primary. We lived next to it and DD just assumed she would go, so I thought why not go and see? It seemed a bit odd to me that there would be this good school next door and Dd shouldn’t go (but then I am Episcopalian so I didn’t see a huge issue with the religious aspects, at least not at primary). The headmaster was lovely and gave me a tour and assured me DD would not feel excluded for not being Catholic. She is now towards the end of secondary and still has a lot of good friends from when she was at primary school. She is at the non-denominational secondary as that is also very close by and she got a place as we are in the catchment for that (the Catholic secondary is a few miles away).

If you have girls then there is Kilgraston School in Bridge of Earn which is very close to Perth. It is Catholic. All through school from nursery to 6th form. Good academics (follow Scottish curriculum) small and nurturing but a tad expensive. Other than that I can’t think of another RC school that’s private outside the Glasgow area.
For what it’s worth my DC went to our local RC school and more than 50% were non catholic. We were not catholic (like Katysun, I’m Episcopalian). We chose it for small class sizes. DC moved to independent schools from P5 so we didn’t use the RC feeder school which would have been a 20 minute bus journey each way.

I agree re. choosing where you want to live first. I can only comment on the state (i.e.non fee paying) sector but in Scotland, most children go to their local catchment primary school which feeds into their local catchment high school. High schools don't select pupils and there is no streaming or setting as far as I can see.

If you do choose to make a placing request to a school other than your catchment school, you have the hassle of transport and consequent lack of independence if your chosen school isn't within walking distance, friends not living nearby and maybe being the only child in the street who is not part of the local school community. It also raises issues when children transfer to high school as, again, your address determines which high school catchment you are in so another placing request would be required and could not be guaranteed.

We've had experience of four different primary schools, a mixture of big, small, non denominational and Catholic but I would say that education wise there was little difference between them and as a previous poster said, what suits one child doesn't necessarily suit another.

You should read about the controversial Curriculum for Excellence which is the basis for education in all Scottish schools. There is a lot of emphasis on mindfulness, wellbeing and values rather than attainment so there isn't such a thing as a primary school with good grades or results. The mantra of curriculum for excellence is that children become responsible citizens, effective contributors, confident individuals and successful learners.

In our experience around 25% of the children in the Catholic primary were from non Catholic families, including ourselves, though I suspect this would be different in the west of Scotland where sectarianism is more of an issue.

All pupils have been out of school and remote learning since Christmas because of Covid with only the very youngest pupils and senior pupils starting to return next week. They were also at home from March until after the summer break in August last year with national exams for high school pupils cancelled last year and this year. I just mention this to show that the whole school picture, along with everything else here in Scotland, is pretty unsettled at the moment and then of course there are the constant rumblings about another Scottish independence referendum. I don't think I would leave Australia just yet!

Gosh, thanks so much everyone for your input. Sounds like schooling is quite a bit different in the UK from Australia. Our child is in a fantastic smaller semi-rural Catholic primary with an ethos with an emphasis on kindness and inclusiveness alongside faith and I suppose I was trying to find something similar. I accept now that there may not be 'like for like' but indeed some great primaries out there.

Thanks @SteamPudding for your insight, appreciate it. We aren't looking to move any time soon - we're talking at least 12 months from now, perhaps 15 to 18 - all dependent on the pandemic etc. We keep in touch with family in Scotland (albeit no children in schools) so we've kept up with what is happening out there. Here's hoping for more 'even ground' in the not too distant future. Stay safe and well.

Thanks @motherstongue. Had a look at the school and I really like their ethos. I think unfortunately it will be out of our price range. Sounds like there are lots of great smaller inclusive schools. Do you mind privately sharing the school?

Thanks @KatySun. If not too intrusive would you mind letting me know the school (private message if that's ok with you?)

Thanks @Sootess

Appreciate your thoughts @felulageller .. I hadn't thought of living semi-rurally but commuting to Edinburgh or Glasgow for schooling. Definitely food for thought, thanks.

Thanks @readsalotgirl63 for the information.

Hi @WaxOnFeckOff you make some very good points. I suppose I was approaching the wrong way around. I hadn't thought of teaching Catholicism at home/church whist attending a non-dom. What I was initially thinking is if I had a stack of personal good reviews for schools we could then (virtually) work my way through and look at the towns/villages the schools were in and take it from there - with a view to having a list to visit once we're there (admission availability taken into account). Sounds like quite a few ducks to line up however.. would need housing/jobs to be commutable also! I think I need to give this a huge amount of thought. We're looking for semi-rural, 1.5 hours to a city is ok. Looking for a nice smaller community minded town or village. Don't really have a preference for East or West, North or South - was really thinking of not being in a city location. We would even consider an island location if the stars aligned! You've given me a lot of think about, thank you. Any personal recommendations of smaller towns/villages please let me know!

@Pemberleys I'd love to have a chat (on this thread or private pm ok) if you didn't mind - sounds like you have some really good personal experience I'd be grateful to hear.

Thanks @Sturmundcalm and everyone else. Really appreciate the insights - loads to think about!

I hate to say it, but research everywhere because anti- Catholic rhetoric can still be prevalent in some parts of Scotland.

Not thinking about schools some nice small towns/villages are
Queensferry
Aberdour
All of the east Neuk of Fife
St Andrews
Tayport/Newport/Working
Longforgan
Alyth
Pitlochery
Banchory
Edzell
Fortrose
Beauly
Gairloch
Dunblane
Bridge of Allen
Callender
Aberfoyle
Lenzie
Kilmalcolm
Bridge of Weir
Prestwick
Alloway
Newton Stewart
Kirkcudbright
Moffat
Melrose
Lanark
Biggar

I think you can rule out island locations if you want to be within 1.5hours of a major city. There's some great suggestions in the list above. I would also add East Lothian into the mix which puts you close to Edinburgh but still quite rural in places. The borders towns are a good shout, particularly the ones on the "new" borders railway line into Edinburgh.
A lot of your location choice might also come down to budget and I suspect property sizes will come as a shock to you after living in Australia!

@RaspberryCoulis

Given that Ofsted is an England/Wales thing, pay no need to what Anna is saying as it's completely irrelevant to Scotland.

It’s actually just an English thing. In Wales we have Estyn.

would add Stonehaven to @felulageller's list

think you can also rule out islands on the basis of no catholic schools...

Are you a practising Catholic?
Most Catholic schools require a baptism certificate.

I was just coming onto say Stonehaven too!
Also Moray towns/villages
Inverness (great place to bring up kids)
Grantown on Spey
Aviemore
Helensburgh

Now you know there's no exact equivalent schooling @wellhelloyou I think you should narrow down your location to a few areas and then come back on asking about schools in those areas?

If you're set on private then you'll need to stay near to a city as that's where most private schools are, and also in rural Perthshire.
Look at Scottish Council for Independent Schools for list.

If you definitely want catholic then it's probably going to be a state school. Also be aware that once you're away from the central belt there may well be one catholic primary covering a large catchment so your child's school friends may be spread over wide area. There are also lots of the more rural areas where there is no catholic high school provision (not sure if that's relevant to you).
You can look on the Council website for each area for names of their catholic schools.

Good luck

Just here to reiterate what everyone else has said. I'd pick a place to live then sort schools. Certainly in the West you'll have a non Dom and a Catholic school linked to your address.

I teach in Catholic schools but I'm Glasgow so my experience isn't what you're looking for. What I would say is that all Catholic schools follow the Scottish curriculum with different re experiences and outcomes. Catholicism is woven into all areas of the schools though and certainly is the basis of their vision and values. Most schools will have a website with a handbook on it that will outline their visions and values. If you go onto Rightmove and pick a house, it usually has a list of nearby schools (the Catholic one will be a saint or "our lady"/"holy cross" etc).

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17514133.full-every-secondary-school-scotland-ranks-exam-league-table/

this will show you the number of highers etc in each secondary school in Scotland - this is as close to a league table as you can get. The high school website will tell you the feeder primaries so you could work back from there if you wanted. And again a Google with "school name hmie" will give you inspection reports though many will be out of date (inspections are roughly every 10 years).

Again, pick an area and a home you love then deal with the schools.