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Patients with Covid-19 being sent home from hospital

50 replies

ToWalkaMile · 20/01/2021 23:16

I posted about this the other night, then asked for the thread to be deleted as it potentially identifying. I've since discovered that the people involved are minded to go to the press about this, so I'll post again.

The matter is now being taken up by the couple's constituency MSP. This post is pretty much the content of the email I sent to him last night, with names changed. I wrote to him with the wife's knowledge and permission.

"John is in his late 80s, and is physically frail with a number of health problems. He has been in Local Hospital with a physical health issue for which surgery is not an option due to his age and frailty. However, as he was better in himself, it was planned that he be discharged from hospital and return home on Friday, 15th January. While in hospital he had been tested for Covid a few times - always negative, until Friday, when he tested positive.

When Janet received a call from the hospital on Friday to tell her that John had contracted Covid while in hospital, she expected that he would remain in hospital. However, the hospital wanted to send John home. Janet pointed out that she is vulnerable, being in her 70s with angina and diabetes. John and Janet have been more or less shielding since March, and have hardly left home in that time. Janet found herself in the distressing situation of having to refuse, repeatedly, to have her sick husband at home in case she contracted Covid from him. Their house cannot accommodate a couple with one self-isolating.

After some discussion, the hospital eventually agreed not to send John home.

On Sunday morning, the hospital again contacted Janet, said that John would need to come home and that as she couldn’t collect him, they would arrange a taxi. Janet again stated that she couldn't have John back home, but after repeated pressure from the hospital, felt she was left with no other option. With help from various sources, arrangements were made for John to self-isolate in a neighbour’s house which is currently unoccupied.

On Sunday evening, Janet was advised that the taxi firm had refused to take John as a passenger, so he remained in hospital.

Over Sunday night, John developed a high temperature, and the hospital contacted Janet on Monday morning to advise her of this and that John would now remain in hospital as a Covid patient.

On Tuesday, the hospital contacted Janet to let her know that John’s temperature was now back to normal, and that he would be discharged. John came back to home village in an ambulance on Tuesday afternoon.

John has Covid-19. He is a frail, elderly man, who can’t use a mobile phone and struggles to use a land-line. He is on his own in someone else’s house. There is no care package in place. There is no one with him to take action if his Covid symptoms worsen. It is entirely possible that he becomes ill and is unable to phone for help. He does have a care alarm button, but he is vulnerable, distressed and ill with Covid-19, and needs much more than that. Janet is taking food and medicines to the doorstep. He is frightened that he will give Janet Covid, and she is scared for him and for herself.

John and Janet are both extremely distressed and I would say traumatised by what has happened since Friday and the on-going dreadful situation in which they find themselves. Janet has said to me that she feels that she was bullied into this. She would much rather John was in hospital, with medical staff there if his condition deteriorates.

Why are vulnerable patients with Covid-19 being sent home from hospital?

Why are people like Janet being ignored when they say they cannot have a patient with Covid back home?

Why are they being sent back into the care of people who are themselves vulnerable?

Why are elderly vulnerable people with Covid-19 being expected to care for themselves in self-isolation without any medical attention or care?

Why are they not being sent to, for example, the Louisa Jordan Hospital which was set up last year for precisely this purpose?

How many other patients are being sent home with Covid?

I am horrified by what has happened, and is still happening, to John and Janet. I cannot comprehend why a frail, elderly man with Covid-19 has been discharged from hospital. He should be in hospital, being monitored and receiving appropriate care from medical professionals."

When I spoke to Janet today she says that John had told her that other patients were being sent home after testing positive for Covid.

Yesterday, when I was talking to her about what to do if John's condition worsened, I mentioned that the various bits of paper she received when John was discharged, might contain helpful information and an emergency number to call. Nope! The paperwork he was sent home with refers only to the physical condition he was admitted with - nothing at all about the fact that he has Covid-19.

And in terms of the pressure that was placed on Janet to accept having John back home - during one phone call a doctor said to her, "your husband is sitting here crying because you won't allow him to come home".

So, I can't go into my local chippy, but patients, including the most vulnerable, with covid are being sent back out into the community.

Oh, and the hospital said they weren't sending John home because they wanted his bed. They were sending him home in case he caught something in hospital!

OP posts:
ssd · 21/01/2021 10:48

This is absolutely awful, I dont know what to say.

beepbeeprichie · 21/01/2021 11:14

That is an absolute disgrace. I would be tempted to go to the press if at all possible, as doubtful this is an isolated case. . Most MSPs just toe the party line and won’t make a fuss for anyone in their local constituency.

anon444877 · 21/01/2021 11:26

Absolutely awful, and the fact the hospital tried so many times to send him home makes it clear it's policy. Abhorrent.

Barnicus · 21/01/2021 11:45

It's is a truly awful situation and it must be happening up and down the country.

But what is the alternative? Hospitals are at capacity and can't have beds taken up with a 'well' patient when beds are needed for sicker patients (I appreciate he isn't well but you didn't mention if he had other symptoms)

The LJ cannot be staffed as an overflow hospital because there isn't the staff to man it. There's barely enough staff in hospital just now with high sickness levels.

The whole situation is just awful and it's years of underfunding that's to blame.

I had a situation with my own mum who was admitted with a bowel infection, one arrival was found to have a high temp (due to the stomach issues) but was then sent to a 'red' corona area while she was tested. She was then sent for chest X-rays due to suspected corona - all still in a red area- then the decided just after midnight she didn't need treatment and she was sent home, alone, before her corona tests came back. She was left at midnight unable to decide if she should call a taxi and risk the health of a stranger or phone me and put her family at risk - she picked me. I know this is no where near as serious as the example in the OP but I just think there are not enough beds for people who just aren't sick enough.

Backbee · 21/01/2021 11:50

It is a sorry state of affairs, but many hospitals are over capacity, and have no funding or resources to create 'half way' centres for those who do not require medical intervention for covid, but it poses a risk to others to send them home. What would you propose happen OP? Do you think the hospital take delight in it, or are having to make impossible decisions? The scary truth is that the bed and resources he was taking up despite not needing them could mean someone who needs that bed couldn't have it. Would you like to be in charge of making decisions like whether to turn someone away potentially meaning they are unlikely to survive, or to send someone back home?

anon444877 · 21/01/2021 11:53

Why is it up to the op to justify a better system? Why defend sending a person home to potentially kill their spouse by giving them covid?

It's up to the govt to justify it. We can lock everyone up but this is still ok is it?

Blacktothepink · 21/01/2021 11:54

Absolutely disgraceful Sad

Milkshake7489 · 21/01/2021 11:57

This is what happens when money is thrown at building nightingale hospitals without the foresight of considering who will actually staff them...

I feel so sorry for Janet, who must be truly terrified to not let her husband back home. And heartbroken for John who is ill and alone in a strange place Sad.

Unfortunately, I don't know what hospitals are meant to do? It's the government and piss poor planning that has lead to this.

Is there no one less vulnerable in the family who can care for John? (Not that anyone should be put in that situation, but if he were my family member I'd rather he was with me than alone and scared).

YesMeLady · 21/01/2021 12:00

When does someone test negative after being positive, is there some sort of treatment in between. I guess you call 999 if someone deteriorates but what an awful situation to be put in for everyone but no idea what the alternative is, I thought that was what the Nightingale hospitals were for to take people recovering.

titchy · 21/01/2021 12:03

John clearly shouldn't have stayed in hospital if he wasn't in need of hospital treatment.

I don't know what the Scottish system is, but when my vulnerable MIL was discharged she was sent to a rehab place for six weeks - under a specific Covid funding package social services had access to. That seems to be to be a much better option. Presumably not available in Scotland though.

Sad
Barnicus · 21/01/2021 12:08

I didn't mean the op should come up with a solution. I mean what is the alternative for a hospital worker in a situation where they can't keep a well person in a bed for 10 days when the hospitals are at capacity (or almost)

OverTheRubicon · 21/01/2021 12:10

That is such a hard situation. However like others say, given the terrible circumstances, keeping people in hospital who test positive but are asymptomic or otherwise not in need of treatment is not practical.

If he stays in hospital, nurses, doctors and other patients and hospital staff run a higher risk of catching it from him and being unable to work, or passing it on to other patients. His regular care, that is not medically needed, will use up much needed resources.

It's not ideal but nor are many medical outcomes right now, there are so many who have far higher need than this and still aren't able to access it.

It's shit, but like others say, the best option might be for a less vulnerable family member to move in with him (or him to move in with them) and do their best to isolate within the house.

anon444877 · 21/01/2021 12:13

It's not the hospital's fault either - the govt should be held to account and come up with better.

Not everyone has less vulnerable family to care for them, clearly this is such a case and given the huge changes made since March 2020, something better could've been achieved by now.

iquitelikenormalityafterall · 21/01/2021 12:20

This shows exactly how covid infections are being acquired (in hospital) then taken back to familiarise in the community. It also shows how all the extra restrictions in place are going to have zero impact, because they’ve targeted the wrong areas. It’s a disgrace that this is happening, everyone else is being blamed and they have no real plan to open schools.

iquitelikenormalityafterall · 21/01/2021 12:20

Families*

Sturmundcalm · 21/01/2021 13:29

hmmm... a friend's parent was discharged last week from hospital, and transported home by family. the next morning the hospital called to say latest covid test was positive - you start to wonder if that was a deliberate delay in finding out that issue!

track and trace didn't get involved either (i.e. didn't contact family member who provided transport) which is very odd.

there is no easily identifiable solution to this but it does make a mockery of the Stay At Home advice if the hospitals are then discharging covid-positive patients direct to your home!

WeAllHaveWings · 21/01/2021 14:58

There are lots of people at home isolating with covid, so sending someone home who does not need hospital treatment for their current covid symptoms, and might never have severe symptoms, to free up a bed for someone who really needs it, is just one of the difficult decisions doctors are having to make right now.

Regardless of where they picked up the infection, it is not the responsibility of hospitals to isolate covid positive people with mild symptoms to reduce community transmission. Their responsibility is to use their limited resource to treat those that are seriously ill.

It is harsh, and I feel so sorry for John and Janet, but it is not the hospital or the doctor at fault.

anon444877 · 21/01/2021 15:42

No but clearly there is fault here - the process of sending covid positive frail elderly people home to infect their frail elderly spouse - very surprised anyone is attempting to defend that. Why do we accept hospitals still have no better options than that nearly a year in?

If you believe in the goals of preventing covid transmission to vulnerable groups (the whole point of the last year) this is a huge failure.

Myneighboursnorlax · 21/01/2021 15:51

A similar thing happened to my grandparent. He’s 95, caught coronavirus in hospital, and they insisted on sending him home in an ambulance. He lives alone, has diabetes and other health conditions, and was still recovering from surgery. No support was put in place for him.

ProseccoThyme · 21/01/2021 16:02

Sadly, the overall risk of him staying in hospital & potentially infecting many people, compared to infecting 1 person at home is higher.

These are awful decisions to make, but if he is clinically well enough to go home, what is the alternative?

OverTheRubicon · 21/01/2021 16:23

@ProseccoThyme

Sadly, the overall risk of him staying in hospital & potentially infecting many people, compared to infecting 1 person at home is higher.

These are awful decisions to make, but if he is clinically well enough to go home, what is the alternative?

This. And it's not perfect in other countries either - for example, part of the reason that Taiwan has tight control of covid is because if you test positive, you have to go immediately to state run quarantine where staff have minimal contact with you and food is delivered (grim and with no choice) daily. OP says the house is 'not possible to self isolate' but it's hard to see how it could be worse than that. I agree that leaving another vulnerable person in charge is not ideal, but given that state-funded rehab is not an option, someone from the family is going to have to step up, or he will need to be in his.own Taiwan style lockdown at home. It's so sad for both people in the situation, but hospital is not the right place for him right now.
MyDcAreMarvel · 21/01/2021 16:29

It’s heartbreaking. The alternative is to set up care homes specifically for Covid positive patients who cannot be cared for at home. A halfway house between hospital and home.

PaddyF0dder · 21/01/2021 16:34

People can test positive for WEEKS after recovering from covid. Might be dead virus, or fragments of virus, or whatever. It doesn’t mean they’re actively unwell, and it doesn’t mean they’re contagious.

If all recovered-but-testing-positive patients are stuck in hospital, there will be no beds for unwell people.

MyDcAreMarvel · 21/01/2021 16:40

@PaddyF0dder yes but this was “Johns” first positive test so he had only just contracted Covid-19 and was both unwell and contagious.

iquitelikenormalityafterall · 21/01/2021 16:44

Why are hospitals not offering elderly people the vaccine upon admission?