Scottish government considering ditching end of year exams permanently

[2magpies1pigeon]

What do people think?

www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/replace-out-of-date-high-school-exams-advisers-tell-ministers/

"It said: “High school examinations are essentially an out-of-date 19th and 20th-century technology operating in a 21st-century environment of teaching and learning.""

Swinney responds: “It reinforces the issue of equity as the defining agenda of our time, says we have an excellent standing internationally and that Scottish education can be a ‘global standard bearer in a post-pandemic world’.

I'm worried about dumbing down.

Would taking the exam away change what student learn? Would it change the knowledge they have for moving onto their next thing?

I wouldn't pay any attention to what John Swinney says. It is going to be nonsense all round. I seriously doubt that Scottish education is the standard bearer of anything, except that in order to close the "attainment gap" you just make sure nobody does anything and nothing can be proven.

@seethingsdifferently, most definitely yes. I have sat loads of exams and I know that when you have a deadline and a clear objective you do go the extra mile (or two or five).

I think something needs to change. Perhaps getting rid of the exams is the way forward.

So many things wrong with the system. It must be very difficult for high schools to meet the educational and emotional needs of 11year olds and 17 year olds.
S5 and S6 are not even whole years, 9 months at maximum, very pressurised years.
It takes far too long for the candidates to get their sqa results back.
SQA is not transparent enough for my liking, being exempt from freedom for information requests. Don’t know how true this is but one of my dd flat mates at uni bragged that he went to a private school in Scotland, sat sqa exams which a few of his teachers had been involved in setting the questions for and it was heavily hinted just before what was in the exams. Who knows? I have no idea who actually sets the exams.

I think being able to communicate effectively with a wide range of people and having an interest, curiosity and willingness to learn and graft are far better qualities to have in our young students and would lead to a better workforce and people. Confidence in themselves to do jobs without continual support and praise is often lacking. I do think the current exams and system fails the vast majority of our children in this respect.

A lot of students just learn for the exams by rote learning and just getting used to answering the type of questions set, not really understanding and applying knowledge.

I think it's a great idea to test regularly throughout the year.

@Arkadia I do know what you mean. I recently gained a qualification which had no final exam only assessments throughout the year and I did not have the big feeling of achievement that I have when passing an exam. But I am not sure I would have come away with more knowledge if there had been an exam though I do think not as many students would have passed the course.

When I went to colleague went did a topic then a test or piece of work based on that which was graded. I think it could work as it would mean the student could build up a body of work to base grades on should they ever need to cut years short again.

I'm an SQA exam marker and teacher. Exams are not fit for purpose, I'd gladly scrap them for coursework assessments which are moderated regularly by external sources to ensure consistency. We teach senior years to the rigid and boring exams, it kills any love of the subject or learning.

This is because the standards in Scotland have slipped so much, they want to stop measuring altogether.

I think that we will just end up with everyone "doing well", as standards slip further and employers and universities have no mechanism to work out who has gained knowledge or skills at school.

They won't have no mechanism, just a different mechanism.
My DS is at college now, they get more than one chance to pass the essential elements of their course, its made a big difference to his confidence and determination, the fact that the one part of the course he finds difficult is not going to cause him to fail the whole thing, he gets it in the end too so the learning goal is met.
I didn't pass my driving test first time, should I not be allowed to drive?
I know people who took more than one go to pass professional exams too, chattered accountancy exams or sergeant exams in the police etc. but are good at their job.
You could award cumulative merit and distinction grades for brainy types.
Its possible it could swap one set of problems for another so should not be done lightly but I feel doing more shorter regular assesments had meant my DS doing his Highers is working more consistently and learning more this year.
Its actually more similar to how my son at uni works with a final grade at the end of the year based on an average of different essays and tests taken over two semesters.
One thing I will add is that I think it will be impossible to remove the attainment gap totally, no matter what they try because children can't choose their parents.
People talk about the Finns not having end of school exams (caveat I haven't checked what they actually do) but I don't think you can swap one countries system for another without digging deep into the results and methods but one thing they do that I feel probably does have an effect is that that pay teachers a lot more and therefore attract and retain good talented and experienced teachers. DS had a lot of nice but very young teachers at the moment.

Universities and employers would have to more effort in selecting the best candidate. I think universities on the whole have an easy selection process; ok they have to read the UCAS form on most degrees but I bet most just look at grades. Interviews would be better and they could provide their own exams like in the olden days, but that is time consuming and more expensive. It’s putting the onus on the universities and not the schools. Takes the pressure off the government having to deal with criticism of levels of education. schools are under their control: universities and private businesses are not.
I suppose stringent checks would have to be in place so that nepotism did not become endemic. I thought most apprenticeships selections applied their own tests anyway.

@Arkadia

I wouldn't pay any attention to what John Swinney says. It is going to be nonsense all round. I seriously doubt that Scottish education is the standard bearer of anything, except that in order to close the "attainment gap" you just make sure nobody does anything and nothing can be proven.

Well this in spades.

Narrowing the attainment gap in SNP speak just means giving everyone the same grade. UCAS aren't going to be impressed. Employers aren't going to be impressed. Nearly every other country has a system of end of school exams.

Swinney really is an arse, isn't he?

@Wbeezer, I think you can re-sit now if you want you, can't you? Or is it just England?

I have long felt the goal of government is trying to dim the population of Scotland so much through poor education that they are stupid enough to vote for independence. So far the tactic is working well

I'm doing a qualification that it's continuously assessed this year. It's more stressful than exams because every piece of handed in work counts (so you don't get a chance to try something and make a mistake before testing because your first attempt counts)! You have to be on top of the work all the time, can't rely on cramming, which I was never good at anyway, but you still need to be on top of the subject matter at each stage of the academic year.

Continuous assessment always sounds like it's the easy option, but I don't know why! They are also harder for people (kids) who don't have a good study environment at home.

Saying that, I think there is an important aspect of exams which is being tested on a wide range of knowledge in a time limited and pressurised environment. It's an aspect of life and isn't harmful as an aspect of studying, but for everything to hinge on it is truly just testing how well people regurgitate info in exam conditions.

@2magpies1pigeon

I think that we will just end up with everyone "doing well", as standards slip further and employers and universities have no mechanism to work out who has gained knowledge or skills at school.

Absolutely agree. A celebration of mediocrity and a sure fire way of demotivating the most able children. 13 years of education to receive a ‘Well Done Everyone’ and a dubious set of ‘grades’.

No resits in Scotland, you have to re-do the whole year, its always been a bug bear of mine, i think it would be too expensive because the SQA is small compared to English exam boards.

That was for @Arkadia.

It will mean any student wanting to do further study outside of Scotland has to sit entrance exams with no training in taking exams. I'm sure some change is needed but this seems hugely likely to dilute standards. But it's ok as we won't know!

Will we get more drop outs at Scottish universities too as students again go to university with no exam taking experience. Or is this wholesale change affecting Scottish unis too?

It seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water. It'd need a cross body panel of independent excellence to begin to assess this and make recommendations which could be part of an electoral platform.

The tragedy is that Scotland will never need well educated young people more than once it is independent.

As an example, I completely rumble under exam pressure. Failed all but 2 exams at school. I only passed maths and drama. I went to college and sat a business studies diploma and a couple of equivalents to O grades (as was at the time) to include English. College was a continuous assessment. Passed everything, in a year with As.

I didn’t go to University but I’ve always thought an entrance exam would prove who worked and who didn’t without exam pressure for all kids.