school differences between england and scotland

[Jumzy]

Dear mums,

For those who moved from England school curriculum to scotland, i have a question about school/classes. I understand year 3 in england curriculum is equivalent to primary 4 in scotland?

I am a bit confused as my daughter was born March 2013, and is currently in year 3 england curriculum, i have contacted one of the schools i want her to join but they were telling me because of her age she would have to join a lower class. Is this how it works? I really do not want her to repeat a class due to age. thank you

I don't know how the curriculum equates, but a March birthday means she would be among the oldest in the class rather than amount the middle as our cut off is end Feb. There might be deferred pupils who could be a little older.

Work should be set by ability as there will be a big range in the class anyway. That's how it worked when mine were in primary. They are in class with their age peers for social reasons rather than put into a year based on academic ability. Sometimes they join older or younger classes for specific stuff like Maths or reading.

In general the Scottish system is much more flexible but they rarely put pupils in class above their age group.

March 2013 birthday would have started P1 here in 2018 so would have started P3 in 2020, so would be going into P4 in August 2021 the same as she'd be going into year 4 in england. She is not going down a year.

We just don't have reception and our cut off is different so pupils starting P1 are usually 4.5 to 5.5

@waxonfeckoff thank you for explaining! I understand it now.

Cut off is different - 4.5 rather than 4 so birthdays after March will be in the year "below" the English equivalent for time in school.

If she's early March some councils (East Dunbartonshire mentions early entry as "possible") might allow her to go in the year above although this is very much an exception. There's a lot more flex so she won't necessarily be the oldest, people routinely defer Jan/Feb birthdays and some November and December birthdays are also deferred.

My DD started P1 after being in reception up to lockdown 1. She's August born so socially very much a P1 but in a mixed age class with P2s and is doing a mixture of P1 and P2 work in phonics and maths. As far as I can tell all the homework is tailored to ability as the homework celebration shows very different tasks to the ones we've been doing!

I think the much maligned curriculum for excellence allows for tailored work quite well.

In England your child would have started primary school a year earlier at age 4 and a half. That is what they call 'reception'. So if you were to move to England they would be in year 3 just now, which is the fourth year of primary school. Don't let them bump your child down a year, unless you think it would benefit them.

Children can start school in England from just turned 4 to just about to turn 5, the admission year runs 1st Sept to 31st August.

In Scotland the admission year runs 1st March to 28th Feb, so children will be between 4.5 and 5.5 when starting P1 (save for Jan and Feb deferrals).

Primary school in England is reception, y1, y2, y3, y4, y5, y6.
Year 7 is the equivalent to S1 in high school. Because of the earlier entry into primary there is usually an extra year of 6th form, or upper 6th.

I think the Scottish system is better as children are emotionally and physically more ready to start as they are slightly older. That is also a benefit at the other end when leaving school.

Sorry, I've read your post incorrectly. Your child would be in P3 in Scotland. This is equivalent to Y3. I retract what I said about not letting them put her down a year, it is the same level of learning as Y3, so your child won't be repeating a year. Scotland just doesn't do reception so effectively kids start learning at Y1 level in P1.
If she were to go into P4 she would be the very youngest and may struggle to keep up with some of her peers who, in some cases, could be as much as 14 months older (due to the Jan & Feb birthday deferral system in Scotland).

I moved both ways as a child, always going into the equivalent year. In England I was one of the oldest, in Scotland in the younger half of the year. My education didn't suffer, but I would not have coped well with high school if I had gone a year earlier.

The OPs child won't be getting bumped down as they will transfer from Year 3 to primary 3 it's just that she will be at the older end of the cohort rather than in the middle to younger end. There are the same number of years of schooling. Reception can be ignored really, that's the equivalent of pre school here but appreciate is is "full time" and a bit more formal rather than part time as it can be here.

In Scotland 7 years primary and 6 secondary. In England 6 years primary and 7 high school (or 5 high school and 2 sixth form college etc.). Obviously not all DC do the whole of High School though.

Sorry crossed there @Throwntothewolves. Great clarification.

I'd say that a child born in March - June might well find that their "correct" Scottish year is on average "behind" where they have been in England. September through March are in the exact same year group if you take number of years in school.

My experience of 3 spring/summer born English kids moving to Scottish schools was that in mixed year classes the children from the English system were working at the level of the equivalent year of the number of years in school - so doing work usually set for the year above the one they're technically in. Both times in schools serving a largely equivalent demographic - siblings from a rural English school into a school in rural Fife and my DD moving from a small town suburban non leafy primary to a very similar non leafy school in East Dunbartonshire.

P1 work has been very very similar to that in reception last year - basic phonics, basic maths, forest school, even similar topics (Billy Goats Gruff). I think P1 move slightly faster through content but that might be a false impression as apparently half the sounds DD brings home are "P2" sounds.

Agree with others - there's no "equivalent". Children who started P1 in Scotland this summer were born between March 2015 and February 2016.

Children who started reception in England were born September 2015 to August 2016.

6 month overlap, totally different system, different curriculum.

If she's early March some councils (East Dunbartonshire mentions early entry as "possible") might allow her to go in the year above although this is very much an exception

We're East Dunbartonshire and I have never known this happen. Ever, in primary school. Parents are happy to take the view that moving schools is disruptive enough and the disadvantage of perhaps repeating a few things is well worth it in order to be among the older children rather than being the youngest. Although there might be legislation which allows it, in practice it's not used. (Unlike the option to defer, which is widely used).

The only time i've ever known it happen was when I was at secondary myself in the 80s and at the end of S3 a girl transferred to our school from Northern Ireland. Although she was a year younger than us, she'd already progressed so far into her GCSE subjects that it made more sense to put her in with us at the start of S4 in the lead up to Standard Grades than go back to the start of S3.

I think the most important thing is funding a school that is flexible in the work given. DD's school just quietly gave her work after assessing her in the first couple of weeks. I've only just realised that what she's doing is different to the other P1s.

If you've got a choice of areas maybe consider somewhere with mixed age classes as there's easier flexibility there!

I have local experience of a March child joining P1 early. I don't think it was generally successful but i might be biased.

The child had to be dragged into school everyday, by P3 he was a bully and never without a scowl. He was in Ds1s class but should technically have been in DS2s. We ended up having to go out of catchment for high school to get away from him. He was not particularly mature or academic (just tall) and I think it was a combination of trying to save money on private nursery and the nursery frankly wanting rid that seemed to support his readiness for school which seemed to be based entirely on him being tall.

Upshot was that he ended up studying in England for most of High School and ended up leaving the year after DS2 finished, in Scotland no idea how that all worked tbh as meant he was in school 2 years longer than normal?

My Dc were both bright, both summer birthdays so just in their normal year (were reading 4 to 5 years above their chronological age by latter primary) and were at a bog standard medium primary, servicing a mixed demographic of half high level of free school meals and the other half reasonably affluent (not much in between). They were generally moved up to the next year for specific topics such as reading or maths and otherwise kept with their peers, Others in class the same and some would go to class below if required. It was really never an issue. I think overall they weren't stretched enough but that's a general observation and would have been the same regardless. It's also more difficult at the other end of school and going to Uni at 17 with the best part of the first year (technically) too young to go to the pub!

School classes should cater for the child's ability regardless of their age. We had a pupil who moved up from England after doing reception and was put into P1 (which was the correct class for his age). His parents insisted that he be put into P2, against the school's advice. He struggled to keep up and by P5 was finding it so hard that his parents asked for him to repeat the year. Such a pity as he had to make completely new friendships

I've always understood that reception in England was more like pre-school in Scotland. Either way it sounds like some can be quite young (turned 4) so although it's considered the first year of school in England it would be a leap to move into Primary 2 in Scotland.

I think a lot of it is to do with the different ages children can start school. In Scotland they can be between 4.5 and 5.5. My son was an April birthday so fairly old for his year. My daughter was October so half way. I always think that English children born in August seem very young if they're starting when newly four.

DD started reception at 4 years and 3 weeks after starting school nursery (shared classroom with reception but mornings only and dedicated staff at that school) at 3 years and 3 weeks. She coped ok. Would have been better at 4.5/Just turned 5 but not as the oldest child in the room because she's bossy and quite dominant.

Started P1 at exactly 5, settled in quickly and happily. There is a lot of overlap between activities this year and last but socially she fits in well in P1. Friends from both years. She seems confident and is physically up there with the P2s, but I'm assuming it's younger P2s in the P1/P2 class and older P2s in the P2/P3 class. School is teaching her the "P2 sounds" while revising initial phonics, identified that she knew none of the "tricky words" as previous school was pure phonics and said that she was ahead of where most of their intake would be.

However she's August, child mentioned above is March and is used to being taught with children older than them, has been for a few years and is following the expectations designed for children with that much school time.

The first page of homework is generally very similar to the homework done last year, although there are additional challenges - started with number identification, moved on to addition, number lines (up to 100), counting in 2s and now subtraction. Last year was number bonds up to 10 and 20.

She's not bored, but I will admit I don't know how much is standard curriculum, how much is because of the mixed class making it easy to extend where appropriate and how much is the effect of no school/nursery between March and August

A lot of P1 classes in our area are becoming completely play based, although ours is still quite traditional. A friend who teaches P2 says it's a nightmare taking on a class who have done solely play based learning and she feels she has to cram in 2 years of work in one. Schools make up composite classes in different ways - we tend to put brighter P3s in a P2/3 so that they are able to work more independently. Others do it by social groups. Our previous HT was obsessed that it always had to be done by reading groups.

My DS born Feb 2012 is in P4. He could have started school at 4.5 years or 5.5 years old but we gave him the advantage nursery year so he started at 5.5 years.

I think your child should go into P3 if they start this academic year.

Rararachel that’s interesting feedback about P1 that is fully playbased. For ds1 it was part play based which worked great but for ds2 it will be full playbased P1 and I have concerns about this. I can see a noticeable difference between the P1 class of this year and previous years as they still very much are in nursery mode this year but previous years seemed more settled.