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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

7 (seven) further deaths announced today

25 replies

DumplingsAndStew · 30/09/2020 14:11

That's higher than it has been in months 😔

Not sure how to see when these deaths happened.

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Dinnafashyersel · 30/09/2020 14:36

Otoh NRS reported weekly deaths 130 or 12% below the 5 year average. The total of 916 was the lowest level for this week in 5 years. Deaths per week have been bouncing around the average since June. However this is the largest downward deviation and follows on from 53 deaths below average the previous week.

data.gov.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/detail.html#deaths

Lots of contextual analysis in the link.

DumplingsAndStew · 30/09/2020 14:50

Oh thats a really interesting link, thank you 😊

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WaxOnFeckOff · 30/09/2020 16:29

And we still don't know if these are deaths from covid rather than just with covid.

Same for hospital admittances. I wonder if general admittences are at the usual level (just more folk testing for covid) or are actually up like the announcements suggest.

My bil died of cancer last week, he doesn't get an announcement, friends dad died of a stroke, same.

Overall deaths are down on average, lets just scare everyone into pursuing an unattainable target though.

sonicbook · 30/09/2020 17:58

All deaths are awful. I don't think the issue is as much with these seven deaths (apart from with their families of course) but rather the concern about where we will be in a month.

Whitty and Valance both noting a rapid and steady rise in cases, hospital admissions and icu transfers and they expect the deaths to follow sadly. They were very clear that they expect this across the UK and not just in England.

Covid deaths are low but judging by what the medical professionals are saying, it's unlikely they'll stay that way.

The worry as well is the strain on the NHS and the non Covid deaths that will occur if the the NHS is swamped with Covid patients.

WaxOnFeckOff · 30/09/2020 18:13

..and i'm out.

sonicbook · 30/09/2020 19:03

Why because you've developed some weird issue with me? If you can't stand an opposing view then mumsnet isn't the place for you.

WaxOnFeckOff · 30/09/2020 19:07

Not at all sonic, I'm just not interested in catastrophising etc. I know others are happy to discuss worse case scenarios etc, not my cup of tea so I'll leave you to it. I wasn't aware this was a debate?

We all know that no-one on either side of this is interested in the opposing view or up for changing their minds, so it wasn't your post per se, just not into this. In retrospect, I didn't need to post the last post.

sonicbook · 30/09/2020 19:11

Well all threads are, to an extent, a debate or else what's the point of them?

Apologies if I misunderstood you. I wouldn't consider it catastrophising but I do understand people who want to remain positive and hopeful.

The school situation hasn't panned out (so far) as bad as I thought it would infection wise so happy to be wrong on that count! Nothing wrong with a bit of hope.

sonicbook · 30/09/2020 19:13

That was gobbledygook - I meant I have history for worrying about the worst case scenario. That's why I brought schools into it.

WaxOnFeckOff · 30/09/2020 19:24

Sure, that's part of my point really, everything seems designed to make people worry and it does my head in.

I mean numbers are low so why can't they just confirm how many people have actually died because of covid rather than with covid? same for those in ICU and in hospital? I'm a cynic at heart and it just sets my spidey senses tingling because they are extrapolating scenarios from incomplete data or at least are not giving the complete data. That's not addressed at any particular politician, they are all at it and all the people we are hearing from have a political interest in what they are saying. Plus the testing is suspect when you start testing folk without symptoms.

11 million people across the world die of sepsis every year, a great percentage of those entirely preventable. Loads of people have died from other causes (probably a great % of those attributed to covid) but there is no real acknowledgement of that.

I guess I'm just not convinced that nearly as many students had covid before we started testing them as do now, we just know about it now.

sonicbook · 30/09/2020 19:35

Well I don't think sepsis is comparable as it's not contagious. It is, however, horrific and I'm not trying to take away from that.

Of course they must test contacts without symptoms as many Covid sufferers are asymptomatic yet contagious.

With regards to extrapolating from incomplete data I'll need to take your word! Maths and statistics are so far from my strong point it's unreal.

I'm not sure about how covid will be viewed in ten years or whether it's better or worse than suggested but what I don't understand is what possible motivation they have to generate fear? How does it benefit them?

WaxOnFeckOff · 30/09/2020 19:53

It benefits them as it keeps control and also stops them from saying they got the strategy wrong (not blaming here as that is what a lot of countries did). All the initial data was based on 6 flights leaving wuhan over 2 days. the then took the number of positive cases from that (about 6 I think) and produced data on infection rates that most countries in the world used - it was completely wrong. When lock down happened it was about flattening the curve and preventing the health service being overwhelmed - which it did. At that point we should have gone as far back to normal as possible.

Sepsis is relevant as it's the cause of all these deaths but we aren't doing anything about stopping that overwhelm the NHS or we don't ban the sale of products that could kill people with allergies, we allow people to make choices about their behaviour and risk rate their own lives.

That's what we are losing. Now I think we should be facilitating those who want to shield and quite frankly letting the rest of us get on with it. Obviously if that gets to a point where we are at risk of overwhelming NHS services then we need to control that but otherwise, meh.

But I think i'm swimming against the tide so going to do what I said I was doing and move on.

sonicbook · 30/09/2020 20:25

I know you're not coming back but maybe someone with a similar view can help me understand.

How does it help them retain control? We are controlled from the moment we are born. We are registered, schooled, we work, we pay taxes, are mortgaged to the hilt and so on. We weren't on the brink of some revolution that they had to pull us back from.

Sepsis causes an horrific amount of deaths but it doesn't overwhelm the nhs the way coronavirus would and almost did.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 30/09/2020 20:57

I fully supported lockdown and would continue to support measures to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed if indeed that was what would happen with COVID raging out of control. We are a long way from that though, and the doomsday predictions of last week are already looking to be false as the increase in hospitalisations is much smaller than predicted (and well within our capacity to cope).

As it turns out, the NHS was nowhere near being overwhelmed, even at the peak, and certainly isn't now with hospitals largely empty and the overflow hospitals being repurposed. When it became clear that the NHS was 'safe' I don't understand why health services weren't restored in full months ago - we may be protecting them from COVID but them not running is causing suffering and death from numerous other causes instead.

The original message was never one of 'eliminating' the disease or preventing all COVID deaths, and I wouldn't expect it to be as people sadly die from all kinds of things every day and you can't eliminate that risk. As sad as 7 deaths are, the average daily death count in Scotland is something like 150, and as Wax says, none of these other deaths are acknowledged in daily briefings. Other infectious diseases like flu take a huge toll every single year and put strain on the NHS, but we have never shut down society to try and constrain them. We live with them. I also now think that our balance of priorities is heavily skewed in the wrong direction, and that the harms we are doing to prevent COVID greatly outweigh the benefits.

I suspect that our politicians (and NS in particular with all her 'close to elimination' chat over the summer) have painted themselves into a corner now, so we're stuck on a path of reporting every COVID death and being seen to take action to prevent spread. They can hardly do a U turn and say 'actually, at this point we're going to have to get back to normal, even though this means accepting that some more will die of COVID' as the politics is too toxic for that level of honesty. So instead we're stuck in an endless cycle of lockdown and resurgence, desperately hoping for a miracle, with no clear end goal in sight.

Tomorrowisanewday · 30/09/2020 21:14

WaxOnFeckOff - your second to last paragraph is what I've been saying to people for the last month.

If the danger from the virus is still so high in Scotland, why have the NHS started the process to decommission NHS Louisa Jordan?

readsalotgirl63 · 30/09/2020 21:36

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us - fantastic post - completely agree. Also @WaxOnFeckOff agree with you

Scotslassie1 · 30/09/2020 21:43

They're not decommissioning the Louisa Jordan. It'll be a hospital until next Easter at the earliest.

titsbumfannythelot · 01/10/2020 07:04

I thought I read that it was being commissioned too, pleased that it's not. I will never understand why they didn't discharge care home residents with Covid there.

I completely agree with your post @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us

iskwobel · 01/10/2020 07:42

These threads should all be in the general Coronavirus topic as they have nothing to do with Scotland in particular. Perhaps @WaxOnFeckOff and some other people who feel strongly that the world ( with Scotland at its head) is overreacting to the virus would be better posting on the anti dementors threads?
If some of the opinions expressed here were said in Coronavirus you would have many many more people to argue a bit more robustly instead it is turning into an SNP baaaad echo chamber. Sad

Lidlfix · 01/10/2020 08:28

Mmm we had to fight hard to get Scottish Corona threads returned to Scotsnet in March . One of our main lines of persuasion being health and education being devolved matters.

The constant political bickering is (for me) boring and a prevents me contributing to some threads at points.

But I dip in and out and share my apolitical views when chances are there.

My personal dislike of the political nature of discussions doesn't trump the rights of those who enjoy that aspect of topics.

I don't want to have to explain free tuition, Nat 5s and free personal care in a general Corona board.

But accept that others feel differently.

DumplingsAndStew · 01/10/2020 08:34

How has a post about the number of new deaths in Scotland got nothing to do with Scotland? Hmm

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iskwobel · 01/10/2020 09:33

I know that there's a Scottish context to this thread but unfortunately any posts here descend into real political vitriol quickly. If people want a pure Scottish data thread in here would we be able to sustain an apolitical one?

DumplingsAndStew · 01/10/2020 11:30

@iskwobel

I know that there's a Scottish context to this thread but unfortunately any posts here descend into real political vitriol quickly. If people want a pure Scottish data thread in here would we be able to sustain an apolitical one?
That was my intention but sadly, some posters will turn it political regardless of where its posted Sad
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Torvean32 · 05/10/2020 23:12

These deaths wont be where cause of death is actually Covid. It may be a contributing factor. It could be where Covid was diagnosed in the past 28 days. It can even be listed if they had symptoms but had not been tested ( or test results were not back).

Nothing to worry about.

BrazenlyDefying · 06/10/2020 18:06

My bil died of cancer last week, he doesn't get an announcement, friends dad died of a stroke, same.

Sorry to hear that, Wax. A very valued colleague of mine died very suddenly last week too, she was in her 30s. There will be a post mortem, but it wasn't Covid. We can't go to her funeral because of Covid.

Does she not matter either then?

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