Do you think Nicola will allow holidays to Spain without quarantine?

[Coffeeunicorn]

On her next update?

It's hard chasing the popular vote when what people want is all different. She is only able to work in Black or white and not the grey where the vast majority of people are currently sitting.

I found some interesting figures today which I'm not surprised haven't been mentioned by Nicola

that will be those nasty infectious English rushing over the border giving us their germs and obviously it's Boris's fault anyway.

@cdtaylornats some of those figures are a bit out of date since the deaths in South America and Africa are still rising quite steeply. But it's undeniable (unless you're Boris) that UK has a terrible death rate. For all of Sturgen's posturing Scotland is part of the UK and she could not have locked down earlier without being sure there would be financial help from Treasury etc. She can't make decisions same as say Arden who controls the purse strings, borders and all the rest that comes from being an actual prime minister.
Still the care home deaths and the travel chaos around Spain is all of their own making. No excuses there I think.

@Callisto1, don't forget that she did NOT really want to close schools or go into lockdown. She said (and I remember it perfectly), "once you close schools in all likelihood will stay shut till August, so we have to be careful," or wording to that effect. So she was dithering too, in fact I even wrote to councillor and msp to ask for school closures (it is good to be young and naive :D ) and that she got a move on. That was a few days before the actual closures.
Don't get me wrong, these are difficult decisions and with hindsight it is always easier to do the right thing, but let us not put the blame (as ever, like everything else including the weather) on WM.
Besides, we don't even know if a slightly earlier lockdown might have made a great deal of difference, unlike other decisions (like care homes). Probably we would have needed a MUCH earlier lockdown, but, again, hindsight is a great thing.

I accept that the whole U.K. (including Scotland) hasn’t done well thus far on the only fair measure, excess deaths, when you compare internationally, although I do think you have to wait until next year to really see as some countries are now getting resurgence and there may be more deaths to come. New Zealand also now presumably faces the prospect of strict border controls for many years, which isn’t realistic for most countries.

I’m also happy to only judge Nicola Sturgeon on the things within her remit, and totally agree that it’s unfair to expect things like border control that are reserved for an actual prime minister (although people might be less confused about this if she wasn’t continually acting like a ‘proper’ prime minister and talking as though Scotland was an independent country). But even by this measure she hasn’t done any better than the U.K. as a whole, and the care home situation, while bad across the U.K., is worse in Scotland with a higher proportion of residents dead. The U turn, then reverse U turn, on Spanish quarantine just defies belief, although, just like the blended learning, I fully expect her to stand up on Tuesday and state that there was no U turn and everyone just misunderstood her the first time.

I can't understand why anyone would go to Spain in these current circumstances. It was bloody obvious there was a risk of another quarantine. I very much want a holiday myself but I'm not stupid. I have family around the world, including my DSis who my parents miss, but we are prepared to use Zoom for the time being.

I can't understand why anyone would go to Spain in these current circumstances. It was bloody obvious there was a risk of another quarantine.

To be fair, when the Scottish government announces that they’ve reassessed the risks and have now decided that Spain is low risk I don’t think you can blame people for taking that as a green light to go out there. Lots of people don’t keep track of the data themselves and rely on those in charge to do it for them.

I can't understand why anyone would go to Spain in these current circumstances. It was bloody obvious there was a risk of another quarantine.

We flew out while there was still a quarantine, the quarantine was lifted for a few days and now it’s back. If you are not in a position to quarantine afterwards, then you obviously shouldn’t take the risk, but it doesn’t bother us- DH is working from home just now and we can easily quarantine (had to do so at the start of it). We’re having a fabulous time- hopefully our flights home will run as scheduled but we’ll figure something out if they don’t.

Scotland's covid deaths are 2,400. But yes, the table shows how important it is that Scotland gains full independence and the First Minister gains the full border control powers that a 'proper prime minister' has.

Scotland had the chance for that and we voted no. Try respecting democracy. Oh and Scotland didn’t shut schools until after England announced. Neither country can take the moral high ground particularly when it comes to care homes. The home I work at in Edinburgh lost a lot of residents after being made to take residents from hospital with no paperwork. The political point scoring from both Johnson and Sturgeon has to stop. Indy ref 2 is not happening anytime soon .

I can't understand why anyone would go to Spain in these current circumstances. It was bloody obvious there was a risk of another quarantine.

Imagine that you had booked your holiday at Christmas (like we did), before anyone appreciated the seriousness of Covid19. And then you could not get a refund because it was 'safe to travel'. Maybe you would have still stayed at home. For a lot of people losing all their holiday money and having to sit at home because there is no more money to spend really hurts! And honestly if our holiday wouldn't have been cancelled I'm not sure what I would've done despite my unhealthy obsession with Covid19 news.

When is a good time these days for a holiday? Before there’s a vaccine, I’d not put money on October or Christmas holidays being safe so you might as well go when you can as the vaccine by jan is hardly a certainty either.

We booked our holiday over a year ago. I’d pretty much resigned ourselves to not going but when flights started up again just before we were due to go, we decided we might as well. I usually plan loads of activities for our holidays but we’re just winging it this time and it’s been great- did a coastal walk the other day, DS has been coasteering, I just waved DH and DC off onto a snorkelling excursion and am now sitting by the pool. Mallorca is struggling for tourists (and they feel they are being unfairly penalised for the spikes on the mainland) but they are doing quite a lot in terms of mask wearing, hand sanitiser at the front door of all shops, restaurants etc.

Mumofhunter, I think perhaps they are using the National Records of Scotland numbers?
As of 19th July death toll for Scotland due to Covid-19 is 4,193 (cdtaylornats’ photo is dated 15th July).
Not easy to compare numbers across different countries as we are all using different methodology. Nicola is not using NRS numbers in her daily updates. It can be confusing have so many interpretations of data.
I couldn’t understand why Scot.gov had recorded one death but travelling tabby had recorded 2 deaths in the 85-89 age group during the same period, until I looked at the bottom of the graph and it’s source was NRS (National Records of Scotland)

Thanks Jodri, I see now the higher number relates to suspected but not confirmed deaths from Covid.
The higher number actually demonstrates my point even more, poor souls.

Apologies for derailing the thread on Spanish quarantine...
Hmm, I think you are taking liberties to fit your narrative Mumofhunter.
I do not think the ability to close Scotland’s borders is the correct way to go. This goes against the European ideal of free movement of people and with an SNP government still wanting European Union membership I’m sure this does not sit well with Brussels. Sure, Poland closed it borders for a period of time during this pandemic but they have a far right party in power which is very anti EU (just re-elected). I’m sure you are not suggesting that SNP is of the same ilk even though they are a nationalist party.

There are many variables which are difficult to account for involved in biological
processes (more so than in the science of maths, physics band chemistry). I think the deaths due to Covid-19 cannot be due to our open border and to suggest that it is can create much division. it also turns a lot of people off independence and the SNP. I hope these are not their true colours as they are the party in power in my country.

Perhaps we should have looked at how we treat our people living in Scotland before we accuse those infective incomers.
We have been repeatedly told the U.K. and especially Scotland has been the sick man of Europe. So with an already high proportion of sickness in our population I can see why COVID-19 would hit us harder.
The number of people officially shielding in the U.K. is higher than the whole population of New Zealand (I haven’t looked for numbers for Scotland alone).
Interesting numbers to me is how many people have died due to the extra pressure on NHS: those already ill or dealing with chronic or terminal conditions i feel have had the lives also prematurely cut but are not acknowledged nearly enough.

Jodri I feel you're the one changing things to fit your narrative. Why choose Poland? Denmark did the same as, I'm sure, 99 per cent of countries in the EU did.
I'm choosing Denmark as we were due to go to Legoland at Easter but Covid hit so the border was closed unless you were a returning Dane or visiting family (so we had to cancel).
My brother arrived in Japan just in time, before they imposed strict controls. Not really sure why you feel the need to bring the far right into it when this was something replicated around the world and makes complete and utter sense in order to keep deaths low in a country.
Apologies also for de railing the thread!

@trumpisaflump I hope you are on holiday and having a good time. Don't worry about quarantine- there's nothing you can do to alter things now and you took your decision to go on good faith, based on the information at the time.

lol @rookiemere no we're not going! We were due to fly out on Wednesday and really couldn't quarantine as my DS would miss the first week of school. I was gutted unpacking our suitcases. We're still taking two weeks off work and will just spoil ourselves here instead.
I feel so sorry for those who were in Spain at the weekend and heard the news.

@trumpisaflump ah ok, well hopefully due to the circumstances you'll get a refund. I thought you'd gone last Wednesday. Have a good time whatever youndo.