So when are we going back to school?

[RaraRachael]

I was under the impression that NS had announced that all schools in Scotland would start back on August 11th. I have had surveys from my local authority asking when we would like the week's holiday in lieu and if we want 1 or 2 in-service days before we start back in August.

Last night a colleague posted a piece showing all the start dates from the different authorities - some were 10th August, !1th, 12th up to the 18th and 19th.

I am totally confused

Its an average of 5 days for symptoms to appear and can be up to 14 days

I’m not ruling out a resurgence in sept or so anyway, when it gets colder

From Edinburgh council: www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/27509/letter-from-andy-gray-chief-education-officer

We are now planning on the assumption that all schools will be fully open for pupils on 12 August 2020.

Stirling schools have issued current guidance for when they go back (no vending machines, longer periods, no changing rooms) along with letting parents see their Plan B (half days for all year groups)

Just got an email from ds's new primary school. No mention of full time. It's 2 days a week and home learning.

Stoorie is that correspondence from the school or the council? I haven't had that much from where I teach

@Lidlfix from the school (SHS). Happy to forward it if you DM me your email address

2m is still in place, yet they think all schools can go back full time? Plus the unions don't want to go back full time unless all kids wear face masks, perspex screens in place etc. I don't see it happening. I still think there'll be loads of problems in August.

There might well be some issues with school come August, but the aim to go back full time is so much better than what was discussed before!
Unless the loosening of the lockdown unleashes pandemonium we should get more than 1 day a week and after 3 months of home school that sounds great!

They are going for eradication though up here. Unions won’t really be able to argue its unsafe to go back when no ones got it, or numbers are very low. They are being ridiculous as it is given the very low prevalence. Plus SD will not happen in schools. It’s stupid and a farce to pretend it will.

there are around 200-300 confirmed cases in the community in Scotland. That's out of 5.4M people.

Granted there will also unconfirmed cases in the community but at this point there will be far less of those than there would have been at the beginning of this. People know what they are looking for, Asymptomatic people don't seem to big spreaders, children don't seem to be big spreaders.

I know that there are people not in the risk (and those in the risk) category that die and I really don't want to play that situation and those losses down to people who loved and missed them. It is really sad. But, the overall risk to the community is really small, there are other things that people die from that we have no cure for. The risk is now in a different place, it's all those people who haven't had treatment or diagnosis, it's in mental health, its in poverty from those who have lost their livelihood.

We need to not be scared to live our lives but to be cautious in our encounters. I'm really not getting how "Be Alert" is any worse than "Stay Safe" in terms of a headline - surely one of the ways to stay safe is by being alert?

I’ve heard that the teaching unions and COSLA were not consulted. Teaching staff have been told not to engage with employers or management over the holidays. So there could easily be at least a couple of weeks delay as risk assessments are re-evaluated with higher numbers of pupils.

Fife council sent an email out today saying that they’re planning for pupils to return FT in August with children “no longer expected to keep a 2m distance when they are in school” but that they are looking at what measures they can take to ensure limiting the spread of any infection. Blended learning planning will remain in place for plan B.

spoke to MIL who is a retired teacher doing supply (cause she's a waspi)

WDC have planned for 2m distancing so it seems they didn't have a plan in place for f/t learning although their email to me said they did

The unions could change things. A lot of teachers seem to be VERY against schools fully reopening for a variety of reasons and the unions have been pretty vocal so far. Not just the teaching unions either, cleaners, janitors, etc all reportedly very unhappy.

What are they unhappy about? Do they realise the reason schools shut in the first place was nothing to do with them getting it but to stop the chains of transmission with it getting mixed between households?

I’d ask again, just how low does the risk need to be before they deem it “safe”? 1 in 20000? 2000000? Seriously they need to get a grip and do the job they’re paid for by the taxpayer or quit.

The point is that the risk remains low whilst mitigating measures are in place (physical distancing, enhanced hygiene). As soon as you have a lot of people in an enclosed space without mitigating measures, the virus will circulate freely. The reason infection rates are currently low is precisely because we have been in lockdown and restrictions are only gradually being eased. The virus was circulating pretty freely and at a much higher level than official figures by the point lockdown was implemented. I do not know what measures schools elsewhere have in place, but there has to be something. So until safety measures are agreed, then workers and teachers are correct to be worried.

John Swinney would have been much better to have held firm with the plans in place but with a commitment to review in August and upscale schooling as quickly as possible. Then at least everyone would know what they were doing. Whereas now we have chaos. Unions will potentially call their members out, there will be a lot of bad feeling, there will be local unpredictable school closures as soon as there are infections (and then what? Those schools go back to the bubble model, which is unfair). It is chaos now.

Most of the pushback I have seen has been because they’ve been messed around. So they’ve put in hours of work preparing lessons based around 2 cohorts, the physical work of preparing classes for 2 cohorts etc.

Yes the risk is low with mitigating measures in place. But there’s also the factor of how much of the virus is actually in circulation. There’s not a number of the population who are sitting in their homes contagious and ready to unleash it back into the community once they can go into Next again. There’s nothing to say it’ll suddenly go back to uncontrolled spread if people follow the test and protect advice.

@KatySun, I would dispute that at the moment the reason why infection numbers are low are due to lockdown.
Other countries have reopened more or less fully and have not seen a resurgence in cases. A more likely explanation is seasonality.
Said that, JS could not have handled this worse. Not just the unions, but everyone is asking for clarity.

@KatySun makes some good points

and now the briefings have stopped, we might not know if the lifting of restrictions has had any impact, until we get it ourselves.

Speaking of which, I've been feeling 'off' for a few days so have ordered a covid kit. DH thinks I'm daft but his boss had it a month ago (DH a key worker)

I feel hot, tired, headaches and a runny nose (so thought maybe it was hayfever at first but antihistamines not working).

Does anyone know what the latest is from the unions, cosla etc on the schools returning and the switch back to full time learning?

I only know what they said a few days ago re: all kids needing face masks.

I still think phase 4 in August is just craziness. We'll be back at stage 3 or 2 by October.

It’s only going to circulate freely if people actually have it in the first place. Which if the numbers fall will be very unlikely. Why would anyone be worried about a 1 in tens of thousands risk when they
worked with a much higher level of risk pre lockdown? It’s pathetic. Back to school. Hygiene measures should of course remain

Agree that this has all been handled incredibly badly. The U turn on schooling was necessary as it then gave parents and employers much needed certainty, unlike the prospect of potentially schooling from home for a year! People were going to be forced into reducing hours and giving up work at a time when Scotland desperately needs the economy to get moving again. But they should have been on top of the actual infection rates throughout this process, and presenting the actual risks posed by the virus honestly and in context. Instead, up until last week, we've been given the impression that the virus is still out there waiting to pounce and bring us right back to where we were the second we leave our home, and worse, the First Minister has repeatedly implied that children were at some significant level of personal risk from this which had me screaming at the screen on more than one occasion. I understand the strategy - terrify people into complying with restrictions - but in recent weeks anyway it has all been completely disproportionate to the actual level of risk, especially when it comes to the question of whether children are seriously infected or are super spreaders (no and no, just in case there is any doubt).

The fact is, the virus levels we currently have are orders of magnitude lower than we had at the start of lockdown. There isn't a massive pool of infected people ready to unleash huge waves of infection when lockdown eases. Daily confirmed infections across the whole of Scotland are currently in single figures. With a proper test and trace system in place, it should be more than possible to get on top of the inevitable cluster outbreaks and prevent the virus taking hold. There is also evidence that the virus is seasonal, like other coronaviruses, so large outbreaks in the summer when the schools go back are very unlikely. I can understand why teachers/teachers' unions are pissed off at the U turn having spent weeks preparing for blended learning, especially as it seems they weren't consulted beforehand (again, very poorly handled), but I do think they are being unreasonable in suggesting that they will be at enormous risk without distancing. It is as 'safe' as anything is in life, and the harms of not going back in full at this point clearly outweigh the harms of doing so. Mitigating measures to keep adults apart may still be appropriate, but children are not generally spreaders (new study out yesterday again confirms this) and are not generally at risk, so it is unfair to impose restrictions on them.

Totally agree PP.

Also agree @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us well put