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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Primary home schooling?

44 replies

Dramalamaindeed · 20/03/2020 23:03

My son is in primary 4 and seems to be doing well in school.

I’m wondering is there a breakdown of what they learn in primary 4 and where he is on this?

I opened a twinkl account and printed stuff off for him but some of it was too difficult for him. It was asking for him to highlight nouns, adjectives, adverbs. He wasn’t sure and I was trying to explain but I didn’t know how to do it in the correct way as let’s face it I’ve forgotten exactly what an adverb is Blush.

Is there a way to teach him new things which I can follow instead of my crap explanations which make him confused and frustrated?

How do I do this?

OP posts:
MrsAmaretto · 20/03/2020 23:19

I'm in the same boat but with a p5. Our schools closed last week and this week I've just felt increasing rage at the work pack my kid has been given and comparing it online to Scottish Twinkl resouces and English resources.

So yes - how do I teach my kid all these new concepts? I'm bloody sure I did his P5 pack is what I did in p3/4 (& my mum is checking my old jotters this weekend!!!) And after this is over wtf do I do with my child - move school, into private, into England? Because fuck me, his school work is shit and I'm sorry but
A) my kid is not thick as mince and
B) this is the first indication I've had of this!

Coronavirus = parents realising how shit the Scottish education system has got.

Arkadia · 24/03/2020 17:04

Well, you don't do any of that stuff because they won't know what they are talking about. At (my) school they do exactly ZERO grammar. Luckily we had been doing some at home. Khan is a good resource to get you started, then you will need some book, like the CPG ones, but they are all based on English curriculum (not that it matters, really...).

@MrsAmaretto, well, at least something good has come out of all this :D

AHintOfStyle · 24/03/2020 17:10

@MrsAmaretto I don't think you should be blaming the whole Scottish education system, our school have been amazing. Learning packs home, this week's worth of lessons on the online Glow system and teachers posting updates and interacting with the children. They've provided loads of extra links online things and are keeping their twitter up to date.

I think your issue may be with a school rather than a system.

Arkadia · 24/03/2020 17:41

@AHintOfStyle,
do you actually use Glow or Microsoft Teams?
Our school is using Teams and I find the whole process, I must say, very confusing and a bit of a waste of time. More often than not Teams doesn't seem to work (not the school's fault, clearly) and it is making the whole experience very hard to get anything out of.

What kind of packs are you getting? In our case we get some kind of worksheets piecemeal throughout the day and they are all very... "fluffy" content-wise. I don't particularly mind as we are reasonably well organised to keep ourselves entertained, but I do wonder if my experience represents the exception or not.
Bear in mind, our school has just been rated "excellent"...

AHintOfStyle · 24/03/2020 18:29

Teams accessed through Glow
Teachers have put a day by day plan on with links to websites / you tube and then there's a file with resources / sheets for each individual subject.
Can't always access the files depending how many people are logged on so I went on late last night when it was quiet and downloaded stuff.
They're including the joe Wicks workouts in it and lots of fun ideas so it's not 9-3.30 full on!

Corneliawildthing · 26/03/2020 16:22

Our school is doing Google classroom on Glow. We have set up the classroom and are going to use the next 2 weeks (which would have been the holidays anyway) to collect up resources to put on there.
Not sure if we will just be putting up a load of stuff and parents will pick and choose what they want to do, or if we will do a sort of Week 1, Week 2 plan etc.
Before parents get their knickers in a knot, please remember that not every teacher is technologically minded and this is a very steep learning curve for use too.
I wish some of my parents would teach their kids to tie their shoelaces and dress themselves whilst waiting for work to come online

Arkadia · 26/03/2020 16:37

Hahahahaha, very true :D
I feel that the CoE ethos does not suit at all distance teaching (or it doesn't suit us).
I have two kids: one teacher seems more organized. At least we know what to do.
The other instead keeps posting this very airy fairy generic fluffy stuff and we don't know what to do with it. That material MIGHT work in the classroom, but at home... nah!
I have to add that teacher two seems to belong to the technically challenged group. That might explain it.Grin
Anyway, stay away from Teams. That might be one of the crappiest pieces of software I have ever seen.

MrsAmaretto · 28/03/2020 12:28

Our school was actually inspected a year ago and got very satisfactory. One of my children's classes is being used as a example of National best practice for this play based learning up to P3 stuff. They don't have desks in the classroom at all anymore.

Having worked with both the 5-14 and CfE curricula before I retrained, I stand by my point that what this lockdown has shown me is how shite the education system has become. My child in upper primary is not doing the same level of work that they'd have done 10,20 or 30 years ago. This is deeply concerning to me. How on earth will they be able to succeed against peers from England, Ireland and wales if they go to uni?

Although I appreciate the links to resouces the teachers are posting via Class Dojo, Glow etc. a lot of them are above my children's capabilities or "fun" like Joe Wicks.

Now I understand many families in this country do need to be told how to keep their children entertained other than cartoons and video games, and that the children who need to do these activities are likely to not have access to them due to their parents. It's scary how big the educational divide will be between the most vulnerable kids and the rest when they do go back after summer.

Anyway, now that emergency childcare has been sorted out in my county my kids have done no school work this week, it stayed in the washable bag I sent them there with.

Clearly I shouldn't have retrained as now I'm working more hours than ever in the NHS during the week and we will be homeschooling at the weekend. SmileBut only the maths and English activities that they are set.

Unfortunately my kids now know about infection control protocol and why we have to strip in our porch and immediately shower when coming home from mummy's work and childcare. So really I'm trying to tell myself that schooling doesn't matter and I'll sort out private tutors etc when this is all over.

Corneliawildthing · 28/03/2020 12:38

I agree MrsAmaretto the Scottish government can say what they like about levels being maintainedor raised but we know that's nonsense. One of our older teachers kept some jotters from pupils of 30 years ago and there is no way that today's pupils would produce anything like that standard of work. When I think of the general knowledge my friends and I had, kids nowadays know very little. There may be exceptions, but I now teach in the school I went to and have not taught a child who is anywhere near the standard that we were - and there were maybe 10 of us out of a class of 42.
All very worrying and the Curriculum for Excrement will do nothing to help as any teacher knew it wouldn't

Lidlfix · 28/03/2020 15:04

As a secondary teacher I see the decline. What S1 pupils can do now is very different to even a few years ago. Starting with learning how to learn , so many young people are incapable of sitting at a desk, listening and following basic instructions. It's not so much "behaviour" rather a lack of awareness of self and others. Everything is met with a "why" or "I don't like that". And as for Chromebooks/IPads these are becoming a requirement rather than an extra and reducing literacy skills. Confused

midnightstar66 · 28/03/2020 15:15

Twinkl and the likes are mostly based on English curriculum. Which means for p4's you'd be looking at yr3 work. Also bare in mind at that age they have higher expectations than we do in Scotland. Any English links school are currently sending for our p6's is yr5 work

RaraRachael · 28/03/2020 17:09

Mrs Amaretto I despair at the play based learning shenanigans. One local school does it in P1 and the P2 says she now has to cram in 2 years' work into one. What on earth would it be like for a P4 teacher after 3 years of it.

Of course, like all other educational fads, they will reap what they sow and in 10 years time there will be much hand-wringing and wailing at the decline in standards. Here we go again

Arkadia · 28/03/2020 17:15

Well, one "positive" aspect of the lockdown is that now I get to see some of the work that pupils in my kids' class (remember, we are in an "excellent" rated school) are expected to produce.

True example, I have just read quite a nice story from a P4. It is a bit of a shame that throughout the story there were no commas, no full stops and no capital letters. As in ZERO over some 300 words. Spelling, despite the spell checker, was random at best.
Looking at my kids, this is clearly the way they are asked to produce work. If you can be bothered to use punctuation and check the spelling, OK, but if you can't that's fine too.
Note, I know this child and he is lovely and comes from a nice home, so he does not belong to the "disadvantaged" or "learning difficulties" or whatever group.
@midnightstar66, NO WAY that what a P6 does here (in my school) can be equated to a Yr5 child. Not in a million years. In fact, I don't think you can make the comparison at all.
For example, my P6 has hardly done any fraction work, just before the lockdown they were introduced to mixed numbers, but (my daughters informs me) they are still pretty much at the "cut the pie" stage.
Grammar is another sticking point. In Scotland it is not done at all, as in AT ALL. England instead is very focused on it (at least in theory).
I couldn't stand the fact that my children did not know what a verb is, or are unable to recognise an adjective, so we had been doing some of that anyway (thanks KhanAcademy!!) and now we are going through some CGP books so that they can at least be familiar with the terminology and the fact that such a thing called grammar exists.
My P4 was asked to read a chapter of a book (any book) and write a list of the adjectives she could find. It was clear that the task was very difficult for her because she kept mixing adjectives and adverbs.
Another child posted a similar list and out of 37 words had 19 adjectives, 6 verbs, 2 nouns, 7 adverbs, 1 preposition (two words are missing but can't be bothered to go through the list again). This is clearly a task above they capabilities because they just don't know what the component parts of a sentence are (verb, adverb, noun, pronoun, adjective, preposition and determiners).
My P6 does not have a clue either what, say, a pronoun is. She is not even familiar with the word. Just recently they did "it's Vs its" and the word pronoun was never mentioned. "Its" denotes possession.
So, in short, any comparison between English and Scottish system is a waste of time.

midnightstar66 · 28/03/2020 20:14

@Arkadia my p6 who is dyslexic and struggles with maths in comparison to her cohort has been doing quite complicated fractions and decimals all week and was fairly confident. My p2 has been asked to write descriptions using adjectives and check her punctuation and knew what she was doing so I'm not sure your experience is typical?!

grannycab · 28/03/2020 20:21

Look Uf Curriculum for Excellence Benchmarkc - P4 level 1

grannycab · 28/03/2020 20:24

AS in first level, they tell you what they should reach in P4

Arkadia · 28/03/2020 20:24

@midnightstar66,
Don't get this the wrong way, but my school was rated excellent (the only one I know of, in my area at least) and my kids (the teachers say) are top of their class, especially the younger one who is miles ahead. This is to say that perhaps it is your experience/perception that is either not typical or not desirable (as far as the inspectors and the government are concerned, at least).

BTW, they do mention adjectives now and again at my school too, but if you don't know what a verb looks like (or a noun or whatever) it is always going to be an uphill struggle identifying them. As an aside, when I realized not long ago that neither of my kids can recognise a verb in a sentence, I was totally shocked.

Arkadia · 28/03/2020 20:35

@grannycab, in my experience what you mention is totally meaningless and simply a box ticking exercise.
Take punctuation: they would say that my eldest can use all sort of punctuation because on day X she used some, but to say that she "can use it" us not the same as "using it" 100% of the time. In fact I would go as far as to say that she can NOT use it (and latterly we have been doing a lot of written work at home). However in her case the box has been ticked, "let's move on to the next experience".
Talking fractions, my daughters understand them very well, but that is down to me and me alone. I don't think the other p6 would be able to do a simple worksheet for y4/5 from the schoefield books.

As I said, the lockdown has been in some ways a "good" thing because at long last it allowed me to get a glimpse of what goes on within the school, which up until then had been shrouded in mystery.

midnightstar66 · 28/03/2020 20:56

Well I do work in a school myself so think my perception may be fairly accurate. DD is far from top of her class but has been confidently working her way through the fractions and decimals tasks that are labelled as yr5 maths.
She is dyslexic as I already said but her reading level is at the correct age and she can identify a verb, noun and adjective in text. Her spelling is terrible but not really the schools nor the curriculums fault. My P2 was asked to think of 7 adjectives to describe a picture yesterday and did so correctly then wrote sentences using those with capital letters and full stops without being prompted. Again she's not top of her class in fact my dc are one of the few in their year on FSM grants and classed as disadvantaged.
Less children are achieving this at the school I work at but it's in one of the most deprived areas in Scotland.

grannycab · 28/03/2020 21:26

@Arkadiam, not particularly disagreeing with you - but to achieve first level that are supposed to be achieving most of the Benchmarks. That is the theory anyway!

Arkadia · 29/03/2020 12:36

@grannycab,
What worries me is the box ticking attitude and, most of all, the lassaiz-faire do-it-if-you-like way of thinking.
In all honesty, I don't believe my top of the class P6 should have been given first level in English because of her standard of work and lack of knowledge. If she got it, then I cannot see who wouldn't... Someone who comes from abroad and speaks no English perhaps. This is why I find it so unnerving that people, especially teachers, get their knickers in a twist in relation to standardized testing. At the moment we rely solely on box ticking and teachers' subjective judgement. How many kids are being left behind? How many kids are actively taught that choose your favourite subject is not important as long as you are happy?
In our case it doesn't really matter because I have the inclination to take care of things, but what about those who don't or can't?

grannycab · 29/03/2020 12:58

It's an "interesting" time in education. Having been teacher for a long number of years I can't get away from following a sequence and moving forward in a logical way.

I think a lot of the issues are that some teachers don't have a great experience on placement as it is so dependent on their placements/ teacher support with fewer tutor visits!

On my course we learnt primary maths and literacy as part of our course. I'm not sure that still happens on uni courses now and it is so degree level.

Tracking pupil progress is vital to spot when they start to fall behind, and putting strategies inlace to support them...although they are now removing the extra classroom support which proved to be so beneficial.

I agree pupils in some schools receive an "achieved level" when they haven't actually done so - it takes a strong school to say to these in higher position that only 40% have achieved a level.

However I do not think the SNSA assessments are the answer either. You can give as many tests as you like but the number who guess is huge in multiple choice, and an end of topic or spelling tests are pointless.

Arkadia · 29/03/2020 17:16

@grannycab, certainly the SNSAs are not a magic wand (especially with the way they are administered as it is nearly impossible to compare the results across schools), but that's all we have.
I'll give you an example: when my eldest sat hers 2 years ago she scored at the top of maths (no surprise there). In the reading and written test she was at the still top (according to the graphics), but the top band was missing, meaning that she was at the top of the school with a score between 26 and 75% and that nobody (out of 60+) scored in the upper band or significantly above her. This last bit is what I find puzzling... My DD made about 10 mistakes in the spelling and grammar test, how can it be that NOBODY in the school outperformed her enough to get to the upper band? I asked the HT and it seems that, for the school, my DD's performance is as good as it gets (sobering thought...). Personally such results ring alarm bells aplenty.
Thanks to the SNSA I have some hard data to go on. Without it I would have been in the dark.

lentenwonder · 29/03/2020 19:12

The standards in primary have declined even in the time between my first and second dc, the play based learning my younger dc was doing amounted to unstructured play. I’ll eat my hat if the results suddenly turn miraculous!

Dramalamaindeed · 30/03/2020 21:31

I’m thinking about email my sons school but I don’t want to be that parent. I have a friend who recently moved to a better area and school.

The teacher is on google classroom every day setting work out. We’ve had very little. The only thing he’s been asked to do is Sumdog. So I sat with him and the questions are not challenging at all.

I asked my friend to send me the work her teacher is setting (the kids went to school together before they moved). I remember my friend saying that when they moved it was a shock as her son knew nothing that was being taught and was put on a plan to help him catch up.

My son didn’t know how to do any of the work at all.

He’s in primary 4 and I downloaded worksheets off of Twinkl and downloaded the Powerpoints to help him learn.

He didn’t know anything about adjectives, verbs, contractions. Times tables are extremely poor. I’ve spent the last 2 weeks (I kept him off a week before the schools finished) and it feels he has learnt so much.

I wonder why his teacher hasn’t set any work and if they had google classroom set up to get in touch with the teacher?

Also I wanted to raise the point that the questions on Sumdog are too easy. It’s supposed to be a diagnostic test which sets the standard of questions based on his answers but he’s getting 95% correct yet they’re not getting any harder.

It’s really simple stuff like 2+8+7= and he has not click on the answer.

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