2020 Scottish NAT5 Exams support thread

[BrokenWing]

17 weeks to go and ds(15) will be sitting his first exams. I am swinging between relax you have plenty of time and OMG only 17 weeks until the real thing and during that time you have a whole load of portfolios and assessments to complete too!! Do we need to find a tutor for English! How are you going to remember everything for Modern Studies! Do you need more revision guides, folders, notepads and coloured pens! What do you mean you've already started your PE portfolio in class without studying anything for it! ……………..and breathe.

Honestly I know I shouldn't show it to ds and I am not that bad, but sometimes feel it inside!

ds has already sat all, bar one, prelim in the two weeks before the Christmas holidays so we have had a week off everything. His best subjects are maths and science, thinks he did ok in maths, but found physics and chemistry hard. Modern and English (anything that needs writing) doesn't come naturally, he studied hard before the exams (well, crammed 14 hours in at the last minute in the weekend before modern!) so fingers crossed.

French prelim is the 2nd week back so I need to start cajoling him soon to start revision for that during the next week.

Has everyone else completed their prelims and waiting for results or is your Christmas break being overshadowed by frantic studying for prelims in January? 📚

Great result Groovee

Well as this is a nat 5 support thread, none of these children will be in uni next year.
And the phrase “ support thread “ means it’s for, you know, support.
But thanks anyway for your concern and constructive comment.

@SHAR0N my fingers were twitching to write the 3 EXACT same points 🤣 I went for completely ignoring instead!!

I can see the digital past papers on the SQA website, but cant enter anything online, do you need a PDF editor? (we dont have one). I have printed off all the NAT5 ones already (in duplex/2 pages per page at work so not so many trees) but could have been handy for next year.

Well done @Groovee ds!!

@HGC2 we had the information night last night, yes, it is fantastic there are so many different pathways. Think I'll need a tutor to explain them all to me!!!! 🤯 Can't remember half of it!

Traditional route
So we now have Levels 1-7 at school. What I believe equates to 4=NAT4, 5=NAT5, 6=HIGHER, 7=AH (or first year at uni).

Level 6 (HIGHER) can be done as a series of units over 2 years instead of the traditional exam at the end of 5th year? But you can still do the traditional exam after 1 year if you want to?
What wasn't clear is if you fail one of these unit based Level 6 what do you get at the end of the 2 year course? Is there a risk you don't come out with a complete Level 6 award, what is that worth? (before you might have scraped a C at HIGHER)? Do the SQA see a SCQF done over 2 years less favourably?

Vocational Route
Appears they can choose a vocational qualification in 4th or 5th year as one/two of their column choices (limited to early years childcare, bicycle maintenance of barista at our school) and they have timetabled this so you don't miss out on other subjects. Think these were SCQF Level 5.

Apprenticeships

There are 3 apprenticeships - Foundation, Modern, Graduate.
Foundation can be done in 5th year, some are 1 year long others are 2 years long. At the end they have a SCQF Level 6 (same level as HIGHER) qualification. If a 2 year course you need to commit to the entire 2 years or you come out with nothing.
Modern and Graduate apprenticeships are after leaving school.

YASS
For 6th year, sounds like you can choose to do an OU course/module which is worth SCQF Level 7 (AH). It is distance learning. ds's school doesn't offer AH chemistry so is this how he would do it?

It is all mind blowing. Don't take any of above as fact, this is what I think it was!!!! They never gave us any handouts/links to information afterwards.

@brokenwing Sounds like the routes we heard about at my children's school too. It is a minefield. Not sure about the levels but certainly with regards to SCQF levels it is based on qualifications attained, not how long it took you to get them so 1 or 2 years for a higher doesn't matter, think it is just uni's that seem to worry about that, well uni's and parents lol!
If ours want to do an AH in a subject the school doesn't offer they try to get them to do it in another local school. I'll worry about those once we see how the Nat5's go!

@HGC2 they didn't mention another school at the session last night, but have heard someone try that before. They did offer the other AH at another school but the student would need to make their own travel arrangements and there would be a possibility of clashes in timetable with other subjects at their own school. They were told would need to catch up with missed sessions independently.

As you say I am probably musing tooo far ahead!

AHs are such a lottery - v frustrating. I've been trying to work out which AHs the school is likely to offer in a couple of years' time, so that DD can take those subject for National 5s and then Highers. I wish she could just be confident that the school would be offering the subjects she actually wants to study. They don't have much idea of what they'll be offering though.

If you are in a city or town with several high schools close together they can probably do some H and AH at adjacent schools. I know kids come to our school for psychology and some vocational courses and go to another for music technology.

The council/ schools provides the transport.

@Torchlightt I think they sometimes don’t know what they will be offering as it depends on demand and also what teachers they have.

So if they only have one German teacher and they leave, they are stuffed. The position might be filled by someone they are sent by the council who teaches French and Spanish. They don’t always get to fill their own vacancies.

Our school is now offering Nat 5 mandarin because randomly they have a new start ML teacher who is qualified in this. Goodness knows what happens to the kids if they move next session.

The council/ schools provides the transport.

Not at our school it says on his options form "if you chose to study an advanced higher at another school you will be responsible for travel arrangements and costs"

The school arranges transport to college for vocational courses

Well that’s a bit rubbish isn’t it ? Do cake decorating or bricklaying at college and the school pays. AH Physics and you’re on your own!

Actually yes as a teacher I'd far rather see vocational courses be offered to a year group still in the compulsory phase of their education which help them to franchise a positive destination than AHs (of any subject) be a priority.. I cannot stand seeing AHs (run for a tiny class who have already achieved well when Nat 5 classes are packed to the legal limit. As PP pointed out if it rubs in the LA then said LA has a responsibility to transport pupils. Drop out rates in AH once unconditional arrive are quite something- and these were pupils who six months before were "passionate about progressing" in the subject. Going to a different school for lessons is great prep for uni but many S6 pupils see it as major inconvenience. Should be more AH hubs like the Glasgow model as for many schools it's an expensive luxury (waste of money).

I'm inclined to agree re AHs. I think if pupils need them for english/oxbridge entry then that is one thing, or if they want to try to get a 2nd year start at a Scottish uni maybe. Otherwise, I think pupils going on to study those subjects at Uni will possibly be repeating themselves. I'm not in education though so might be missing something.

Maybe the uni bound pupils should be discouraged from 6th year altogether and head straight to Uni after 5th like they used to do in vast numbers? Or 6th year could be used to broaden their education by taking some other highers - perhaps lower numbers so as to allow for some extra curricular stuff and to take account that a lot would be crash highers. Then that may allow them to swap direction more easily if they aren't convinced on their course or want to do a joint honours.

Maybe this review of education that seems to be on the cards will sort it all out...

16 seems very young to be starting university. And I'm not convinced that just having done Highers is a good basis for starting a degree.

Some courses at Scottish Unis require AH. Many more prefer applicants to have certain specific subjects at AH eg AH maths for many engineering courses.

Many courses at rUK Universities require AH.

They are not a luxury for some pupils who wish to study certain subjects.

Dd is doing 3 AHs; she has to for medicine as it’s not possible to go from S5. It’s a tough year as both Chemistry & Biology require projects and she has uni interviews as well. Roll on summer!

I can understand your frustration when budget restriction mean NAT5 classes are bursting at the seams, or when pupils drop out of AH classes but I don't agree. I accept I am biased to my own ds's circumstances.

The flexibility of being able to take AH is there for multiple reasons and if ds wanted to do one surely he has as much right to access to a flexible path in the school environment to a higher education as those who choose to do vocational courses or foundation apprenticeships into S6 and age 18.

His favourite subjects are currently maths and chemistry. He has worked hard and obtained 93% and 84% in his prelims. He will be taking these to higher. If (he hasn't decided yet) he wants to go to uni, but doesn't get the As needed in those subjects in S5 he should have the opportunity to try again with an AH B being equivalent to a HIGHER A and giving him a chance.

It is also, like vocational training and foundation apprenticeships an easier transition from the school classroom environment to work, university level lectures or modern/graduate apprenticeships perhaps further from home. Just because a child is more academic doesnt mean they are all mature enough to move to the next stage at 17 and undeserving of further support.

A local AH hub sounds like a great idea.

My DD1 placement requested to get the AHs she wanted. We were fortunate that she could . With the exception of rural schools (and actually McLaren in Callender do a great job of supporting S6 to study AHs at other Stirling schools) most pupils could get to another school for an AH . Quite often they don't want the hassle, don't want to spend a study period in transit ... Is it really so much too ask if pupils who could be 100s of mimes from home in a years time. S6 is recognised as a waste of time for many pupils . The medicine applicants or those who know that AHs will be needed will work hard regardless of where the qualifications are being taught. If I am honest it was the brick laying / cake decorating comment that bothered me as schools are not exam factories and serve a diverse range of pupils who are all important . That cake decorating or brick laying could be the beginning of a career as much as AH Physics.

I wasnt objecting to brick laying or cake decorating courses. I was pointing out that it seemed unfair that transport was provided for one group of courses but not the other. It’s hard to see why they should be treated so differently.

Given that you say that they are “all important” , could you explain the justification for the disparity please @Lidlfix? Because I’m somewhat confused.

Absolutely, numbers and cost. 27 kids going to local college for a course and I know where I teach we pick up from another school en route. PEF money can also be used towards this. So perhaps 40 pupils going by bus to attend courses which are full and in demand -cost per head is divisible by 40.
. 3 pupils wanting to sit AH not being provided by the school they attend but has a class of 10 at another school in the authority being transported is a significantly higher cost per head.
Sharon if you used Psychology or Sound Production for examples of college courses your post would have had a different tone but I don't think you want to see it.
If you look around schools options lists you will generally find that AHs offered year after year are Physics, Chemistry, Biology , Maths, Mechanics of Maths, English, Music and Art. To support Medicine , Art School /Conservatoire applicants in awareness of the conditional AH passes , portfolios or audition work these applicants need.
As I said my DD placement requested (transported at my cost) to do 2 AHs that her catchment school couldn't offer. She could have travelled from one to another but decided that her 2 AHs were more of a priority than the 1 Higher and Nat 5 she was filling her timetable up with.
I am not against AH , as teacher it allows me to indulge my love of my subject discussing literature with kindred souls. But cost per head it is hugely expensive and has a massive drop out rate.

My DS last year did three AHs. Mods, music and RMPS. In his ModernStudies class there were nearly 20 students. Music was a composite class of Nat 5s - AHS and also was nearly 20.

His RMPS class only had four students but they justified this by only having 2-3 hours of teacher time a week and the rest of the course was guided self-taught. This worked well.

His state school was over 20 miles away from the nearest academy so subject sharing wasn't very feasible.

I can see both sides in this. Have to say once my ds got his unconditional offer from his preferred uni choice she admits he took his foot of the gas a bit! By luck that offer didn’t appear until Feb so the work he had done paid off in not bad grades but he admits now with a bit more work they could have been amazing. Dd on the other hand wants to study maths and if the real things go as well as the prelims then she would have the option of going into second year at uni. But what they both got out of 6 th year after a highly pressured 5 th year has been a better social life, increased independence and responsibilities. I personally wouldn’t say they would have been ready at the end of 5 th year for uni and they are pretty mature. In many ways sixth year has served as their gap year if you see what I mean.
I like the idea of hubs though. Think that’s a great transition to uni life. And personally unless a college is miles away I don’t think any of them should be bused at the schools expense whether vocational or not. Navigating your way there is surely one of the very life skills all young people should be developing. ( Those on very low incomes could be given a bus pass if the cost of fares is prohibitive)

Possibly the difference is that I think the college tends to be one full day a week whereas the AH could be 3 or 4 short sessions over a week making it more expensive but at the same time more awkward to manage if local public transport is crap.

You have point Wax, I think I was looking at it just from a city point of view. I think as well my frustration stems from uni students on placement with me who have never used public transport and can’t answer a phone!🙈

Scuse me I don't have a side I just pointed out numbers and cost implications. I didn't feel comfortable with the comparison between AH Physics and bricklaying/ cake decorating college courses. Schools have tough choices to make and will after all never please everyone. I would love to see more AHs in non STEM subjects available . But will remind myself that this an N5 Support thread and apologise to OP that her thread has been derailed.