Late applications to Edinburgh secondaries (long, sorry!)

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DH has been offered a brilliant job opportunity in Edinburgh, he'd be mad not to accept it. We have family in Glasgow and friends in both Glasgow and Edinburgh, I think it'd be a really positive move for us all. Currently we're in England.

But the move seems daunting as we'd be moving in the same year as our eldest's secondary school admissions, so we'd miss this process. Can anyone help me navigate this?

This has all happened really quickly - but realistically I don't think we'll have sold our house and be ready to move till the new year at the earliest, or later if the market's not moving - unless we're really lucky.

Also, because of the difference in the English and Scottish systems, I can't see any way of doing this other then selling our house first, then renting in Edinburgh while we house hunt. We don't have much spare cash - our house budget is about £300k which I know doesn't go far in Edinburgh!

So, by the time we've bought a home in Edinburgh, we'll have long missed the applications process.

Can anyone give me any advice on this? I know the system is different to England, there isn't the same competition for places, but are Edinburgh schools oversubscribed even so?

DS is bright and has ASD (high functioning) so I need to be careful he's going to a school that he'll likely thrive in.

Will DS end up without a school? Or sent to one miles away that's not suitable for him? Are we mad to consider this?

Thanks for reading all this!

They range OP. In Ds2's 1st year flat, he'd just turned 18 as had one other boy, another turned 18 last week and one is still 17 until nearly Christmas. The remaining flat mate is English and was 19 the weekend after they moved in.

In these days of requiring ID for the pubs and things, I think it can be harder on the younger ones but DS has informed me that where he is, the local pubs are quite expensive and not very atmospheric so if they aren't going to a uni thing in town, they mainly have drink in the flats and visit other flats.

Technically you can go at the end of 5th year and some DC will still be 16 at that point. Most DC now go at the end of 6th year, the youngest could be 17 and a half and not turn 18 until the end of February.

I would say most are 18 these days, a significant minority are 17 and the odd one is 16 ( there was an article about Glasgow Uni Freshers in the Guardian the other day and one of them was 16).
My great uncle went to medical school in Glasgow at 16! But that was about 90 years ago.

Davidson’s mains might be possible and Royal High is an excellent school. Cramond is also in the catchment but not sure if you’d get what you want for your budget. It’s a lovely part of the city so well worth a look

@prettybird you're right! I didn't go to uni until I was 19, but if I'd went straight from school I would've been 17. One of the girls in my uni class wasn't 18 until February.

OP, basically anyone who finishes 6th year but has a birthday between Oct-Feb will be 17.

I work in an education related sector.
Firhill is close to affordable properties, as is Craigmount.
Forrester has improved hugely in recent years.
Balerno and Currie both good but a fair hike from the city centre.
You might want to look at leafy Midlothian, 7miles from city centre, 15 minutes by train. Dalkeith High is growing in reputation.

Allstar - many unis start in September now, as even September birthdays (like ds) who complete S6 get caught! (Aberdeen starts in early September - in fact "Moving in" weekend this year was in August )

With a September birthday, ds is technically slap bang in the middle of the year, but in practice he is towards the young end of the year - because of deferrals, which are quite common in Glasgow.

He has one friend whose birthday is a month after him but was in the year below! (although in that particular case that was also because he came from abroad).

But he also came back down from Aberdeen in February for another friend's 18th birthday, who was most of the way through his 1st year at Uni, having not been deferred and completed S6 with ds.

I'm trying to get my head round this.
This is how I think it works, have I understood correctly?

According to DS's age (11 next month) he'd be with the cohort that are starting S1 in August.

The "default" cut off for years is end of Feb. So DS's friend in his class in England who were born in March or later would be in the year below in Scotland and some of the youngest Year 7s (English first year at secondary) would be in DS's year.

The Edinburgh council website says "If your child will not reach the age of 5 by the start of the new school year (normally mid-August), and you feel your child is not ready to start school in the [...], you can make an application to delay your child’s entry into P1 for a year."

Am I right in thinking that DS would have been 4 at the start of P1 and so he would have been given this option as a November born child? And so there may be other DC as old as him in the year below, potentially?

The council website also says " If your child’s birthday is between August and December delayed entry is at the Council’s discretion". (Does anyone know how they make this decision?)

So, if we did want DS to go down a year, it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask, but we have no guarantee they'd say yes, is that right?

(Thanks PullingMySocksUp and prettybird for bringing this up. I thought I understood the years but obviously not - lots to think about!)

Am I over-thinking that DS will stand out because he's so tall?

He's tall and skinny and easily the tallest boy in his year, despite not being the oldest. If he was with a younger cohort overall, he'd stand out even more. He's already started puberty. I suppose it's less likely he'll be seriously bullied by DC in his year if he's bigger than most, or all of them, so perhaps that could be a good thing?!

He's a good natured boy who has been bullied by other DC in the past. It's obvious to other DC that he's a bit different because of his autism - and does get picked on it for it sometimes. Although to give credit where it's due, he is a pretty robust child and it doesn't seem to have affected him too badly. He has decent social skills especially considering he's on the spectrum but tends to prefer the company of adults or older DC. He doesn't get a lot of the unwritten rules about playing with kids his age. (e.g. he'd prefer to talk about the rules than play a lot of the time!)

But - would it be difficult for him to stick out so much? Or am I over thinking this?!

Yes, that's entirely correct, most dc with birthdays between mid august until Christmas would have started when they were 4 but no child is obliged to start before they turn 5. The council comment is really more to do with whether they would fund another nursery year for a child that they consider is able to start. There is some crossover in ages in a class. So, there will be some as old as your son in the year below his designated start date but probably not many. Sometimes when children transfer from another country they will be given the discretion and put in the lower year.

My DSs are a year apart, a boy who is older than Ds1 was initially put in ds2s class, the following year he moved to ds1s class and transferred with them to high school. He was happy enough as he was friends with both my DC and had friends in both their wider circles. Your DS would be arriving a year later though.

I would try to forget that he is tall and focus more on his academic and social abilities to decide whether gaining some friends in a primary setting would be better or better to arrive new in high school along with everyone else. Essentially if he started in primary he would be in P7 so in his eyes that would be the same as year 7 and he would still be at the older end of his class, similar to where he is now. It's just that it's still in a primary setting it a high school one.

This has all possibly made your decision harder but I would base it on when you move, if it's around February then hell go to primary anyway so might have a few months in that setting to decide? Maybe put him into p6 and if you feel he's ready, transfer him to P7 before the summer? Deciding where you intend to be and speaking to the local school or the council will probably be the sensible approach.

About deferring your child’s entry to P1.

Jan - Feb born child . You have a right to do this and get an extra years funding for nursery . Child starts into P1 a year later. There’s no such thing here as suggesting that because your child stated later they should go straight into P2. I only mention this because it’s A Thing in England. Everyone here would think that’s bonkers.

Apparently 50% of parents choose to defer their jan- feb born child - as Pretty bird says, it’s very common. Teachers all love it too. It’s a win win.

Oct- Dec born child. You don’t have an automatic right to the extra year but I’ve no idea how they actually decide or even if they do. In practice everyone I know has just done it and not asked anyone and it’s all fine.

Two of our children are Jan - Feb. We sent one at 4.5 and one at 5.5. It was the right decision for each child. As PP have said, it meant that one was 17 for most of first year at uni and that was fine.

However I’m not sure this helps you @AlltheName. If your son is ready to go into high school next summer then send him. He won’t be either the youngest or the oldest in the year.

Personally I chose to have my Aspie kid as the oldest rather than the youngest. Not so much for S1 but more for S5 and S5 ( when they sit Nat 5s and highers).

For him it was also crucial to have a good transition, so I strongly recommend that you move up by end May so he can do the induction days . At our school, Sn kids get extras days .

Your second post was after mine but I think I touched on the issue anyway. Sorry to hear he's had ying issues. My eldest had similar and it's devastating. He's 19 and we are still dealing with the fallout unfortunately. Mine are both tall. You'll find a complete range in the classes. A lot of the girls will be taller. My DSs were the tallest boys when they left school but some girls were taller. My two are 6'3 and 6'2 now and have well overtaken the girls.

Yes most will be 17 when they go to uni. In fact I was 16 when I went to uni as I'm a Dec birthday and I didn't stay for S6 as I had the results I needed in S5.

If you want city lifestyle, I really wouldn't consider penicuik or musselburgh, they're both small towns in their own right and quite a trek from the city centre. That's not to say they don't have lots to offer but they're not in Edinburgh. If you are looking at commuter towns Linlithgow, Livingston, even Falkirk are probably better connected.

The "discretion" is about whether or not the council will continue funding nursery for the deferred child.

Height wise, you get a range. He probably would be one of the tallest - but I'd be more concerned about his emotional maturity - which only you know and not us random strangers on t'interney

Ds' December friend was very tall - but he stayed a tall boy all the way through school. (Ds was very small and is still very small at 19 ).

If you want city lifestyle, I really wouldn't consider penicuik or musselburgh, they're both small towns in their own right and quite a trek from the city centre. That's not to say they don't have lots to offer but they're not in Edinburgh. If you are looking at commuter towns Linlithgow, Livingston, even Falkirk are probably better connected

Thanks, that's really useful.

I'm definitely after city life! But DP and the DC want countryside. DP is happy to compromise, however. And I think both the DC would get a lot out of living in a city.

My impression of Livingston is it's a bit soulless (apologies to anyone living in Livingstone!) - is that right or am I being unfair? Someone upthread suggested Linlithgow and on 'paper' it looks great.

Our money would certainly go much further in Falkirk.

e.g. I'd love one of these:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-74521396.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-73778932.html

I don't know anything about Falkirk - just been there once to visit the Kelpies and the Wheel (they were great!)

But - I'd love the DC to grow up in Edinburgh. Gah! We're about £50k or so short of a house I'd be really happy in, in Edinburgh I think!

I'm thinking maybe the best plan is to buy somewhere that's a compromise in Edinburgh, get established, save, look for better job opportunities for me and expect to move again when we can afford it.

But having a nice house slightly outside Edinburgh, while the kids are still small IS very tempting also!

I suspect it'll come down to what's available once we're ready to buy.

The "discretion" is about whether or not the council will continue funding nursery for the deferred child

That's interesting. So would we just be able to chose which year he goes into? Or would the council / individual school have to approve it?

All the info on this thread is so useful. I'm feeling this move is more manageable - although I now know I have much more to think about than I'd considered! But it's all useful stuff.

Thank you so much, everyone

So would we just be able to chose which year he goes into? Or would the council / individual school have to approve it?

I don't know for sure, but I think in this circumstance, you should be able to choose. The fact that the Scottish system is inherently more flexible and that he is currently in the equivalent of P6 on this occasion helps

I think Wax's suggestion of trying to get up here early - May at the latest - is a good one so that you could start him in one year and move him if necessary - and still have time for the transition days if they decision is to put him into P7.

But if he is on the spectrum, he might not like that change on top of everything else.

As regards houses and locations, opinions are like arseholes in that everyone has one...

Personally I wouldn't say that Musselburgh and Penicuik are further away or more remote than linlithgow or livingstone or falkirk (mainly because it's not true). However, it depends on whether it must be a train or a bus you take. Linlithgow is lovely, Falkirk is dying on it's feet and the centre is not a nice place to be, I think Livingstone is souless and I wouldn't choose to live there. I used to live near ro Falkirk (briefly) but moved to Stirling. Larbert is maybe a better option if you want to come out that far, it's also on the train line and the school is decent. Most of the new builds are a fair step from the train station though. Kirknewton would be a ggod option - school bus into balerno which is the catchment school. the problem with these nice/smaller places though is that property of the type you want in the price bracket just wont come up as often as you'd like and if you need to rent in catchment before moving, there will be less local option. That will be slightly easier with high school catchments though as they are bigger and you could rent in a cheaper bit of the catchment while waiting for a house to come up where you want to settle. If you'd rather be on a train line, then there is also the new Borders line so you could look at stations along there, Newtongrange/Gorebridge?

Is there any way you can come up for a wee look around?

We all like different things and put different importance on things so trying to recommend for someone we don't know is really quite hard.

There is no substitute for your own gut feel (and back that up by a bit of research)

Very sound advice WaxOnFeckOff thank you.

As regards houses and locations, opinions are like arseholes in that everyone has one...

In an ideal world:

Period property in central Edinburgh with a large garden in catchment for a good school.

Back in the real world...

Willing to compromise on

• house - would definitely consider flats in converted houses and in tenements
• period property. I wish I didn't have to compromise on this but understand in reality we may well have to!
• location

Not happy to compromise on:

• school. Sending DS (and, later, DD) to a decent secondary is the top priority. I went to a rubbish secondary and I'm determined my DC go to a decent one. I'd compromise most things to make this happen.

• garden. But doesn't need to be private necessarily. A shared garden in a tenement for example would be grand. I'm not particularly green fingered, just want some space for the DC to run about it

• soullessness- I'd be unhappy living in streets and streets of 1980s boxes. Also not keen on new build estates. Currently we live on a 1930s estate and that's fine. The houses aren't going to win any prizes for being beautiful! But it's been around long enough that it has character, it doesn't feel totally soulless. I'd love to live in a period property but open to compromise.

• easy access by public transport into the centre of Edinburgh, not just for commuting, but with the DC in mind as they get older. Also, right now, I'd love DS particularly, to have relatively easy access to the cultural side of Edinburgh. He loves learning and genuinely enjoys museums etc. The small town we live in right now has a couple of small museums and other educational attractions but we know them like the back of our hand! I think DS will be in his element in Edinburgh. (Hopefully DD also as she gets older).

Is there any way you can come up for a wee look around?

Definitely! But not quite yet - our main priority right now is getting the house ready for sale. Once that's well underway we'll be up for a look around.

We'll also be in Glasgow visiting DP's family this Christmas, but I imagine it's possibly not the best time to visit schools!

There are definitely more and more children being deferred so by the time they are in S6 they are turning 18; I think your DS would be fine going into P7 - plus if he went to P7 he'd have the advantage of all the transition activities for moving to high school which might not be a bad thing!

We only break up on the 20th dec this year, just thought I’d mention in case you could come up in time to catch the schools before the finish.

Now, when I grew up on the outskirts of edinburgh, i was using the buses (including changing buses) independently and with my friends from about 9! Nowadays though I'd be looking for somewhere where you had one bus or train into the city centre. Most of the places on your hitlist would meet this.

I wouldn't immediately dismiss new builds or at least older newbuilds. My current estate is about 20 years old now, houses are further apart than you get with really new estates and the trees have matured and it's very leafy and friendly. My Dc are now some of the oldest in our cul-de-sac and it's been nice having families at similar stages in close proximity. We will move on and let a younger family enjoy as soon as DC finish Uni. :)

I've lived in the town in flats and tenements etc and the character etc is very appealing but I'm glad we moved out for fresh air and space. Only you will know what works best for you as a family. Personally I couldn't really care less what it looks like on the outside as I'd be looking out more than in :) but I appreciate that not everyone is the same - kerb appeal and all that jazz..

I remember a thread on here once where we were talking about Dunblane High and someone had dismissed it as when they'd visited it had a couple of "broken/smashed" windows. They weren't. It was the coloured backing (sun screen?) that had gone all wrinkly in the direct sun. :o

So, even if you are just driving past, keep in mind that a school is more than the sum of it's buildings and exam stats...