Gaelic medium education

[parsley455]

Looking for some advice

DD currently in GME primary and will be moving up to high school in a few years. The only school in our local authority that carries on Gaelic as a subject is now getting close to bursting point and this year didn't accept any placing requests out with the catchment area. Myself and a number of others in DDs class are not in the catchment for this high school. I want DD to continue with GME and would ideally want for her to go to the Gaelic High school in Glasgow as a first choice but there are currently no buses put on from our area and I definitely wouldn't look at public transport due to the safety aspect as well as financial. Is anyone able to offer some advice on this and what I would be best doing? Anyone currently have kids at GGH?

Thanks

Is the aim to ship all Scottish teenagers off to Beijing at 18

I wouldn't put anything past Boris.

As for public funding of gaelic for those who don't speak it at home, I don't actually see the problem here - that is exactly the way you increase the numbers of those able to speak/use it at a useful level? Why block access for those who would like it?

As an aside, the French and German schools in London require you to have a level of French/German before you can go. I don't agree with it, they should also provide teaching from scratch (especially as they are private schools - at least, they levy fees, I suspect they receive funding from their respective governments, but I find their closed-off-ness rather odd, they could be doing great things to extend French and German learning in London).

But to get back to the OP, I think if you want specialist provision which is not available locally you'll have to pay for transport. You mentioned two buses, can you take your child to the second bus if you are worried about them changing buses (by the way my DH was getting two buses to school at 11 in London - I suspect many kids still do). After a few months you will probably be reassured that they are fine.

Fanta if you've read the previous posts you'd know the answer to that. If DC already speak gaelic at home then I don't really see the benefit of them learning maths etc in gaelic unless they want to be a gaelic maths teacher. If gaelic is their first language then surely it's more benefit to be taught in english?

If DC don't already speak gaelic at home then learning it as a 2nd language rather than full immersion education would seem better.

Having said that, i've already said if the cost to run it is the same and has the same standard of outcomes and enough DC live in catchment then i'm ambivalent. Or, if it's treated the as a placing request only and parents are making a responsible conscious choice to go there and ensure their DC can get there without extra funding, then again I'm ambivalent.

Oh, WaxOn you're back. When you said i'm done with this as it's pointless I took that as a flounce. I like debating this subject because I think it's very important, so I'm glad you're still keen to engage.

However, I would appreciate not being called bonkers and or accused of having an agenda (no idea what that would be - I'm not a politician!)

My view is pretty simple, I think. There are two types of parents who might want to send their child to a GME school. The first type is parents who speak Gaelic, and might reasonably like their child to be educated in their own language in the country where that language originated and is still spoken. I think that's a moral right.

The second type is parents who don't speak Gaelic but who'd like their child to learn Gaelic to fluency. As Scotland is the country where Gaelic originates and is most widely spoken, I also think it's morally right to give both types of parent that option in a state education system.

Unlike you, I think children with special educational needs should absolutely take priority over a parents wish to educate their child in gaelic.

I just think this is a false dilemma. They shouldn't be placed in opposition. Why not fund both?

What is it about the current system that you think is unfair? Is it that you think Gaelic education provision disadvantages children with SENDs? Because I completely agree that there should be more funding and provision for children with SENDs, but I just don't see how this has anything to do with Gaelic as opposed to other spending considerations. It's not either/or. Neither of these is a luxury.

I don't really see the benefit of them learning maths etc in gaelic unless they want to be a gaelic maths teacher.

Maths is the same in every language. There's no Gaelic Maths. The terms are just explained in Gaelic in GME, which is better for learning if that's the language the kids are used to being taught in

I am very happy that Gaelic medium education exists, but I don't think transport should be funded - it's parental choice and so imo parents should manage the transport requirements that comes with that choice. I feel the same way about transport to RC schools though, so at least I'm consistent!

Funded transport is currently a total mess, it's true. Needs a whole rethink but how it works it depends on the council which can be really unfair

To the PP who thinks that children are more likely to use Gaelic in their lives beyond school (than Spanish, say) - are you referring to those who live in the Western Isles? Because I think the reality is that any child on the mainland is not likely to do so, bar those from the small Gaelic speaking communities in Glasgow and Edinburgh.

And to the PPs who think it's fine as long as it costs the same as standard education - outwith the big Glasgow and Edinburgh units, and again excluding the Western Isles, it is rarely as cost efficient. Think classes of 4/5 pupils - as opposed to the classes of 25-30 in standard education.

Gaelic is only useful to a teacher? In Wales it is required in local government, central government and the NHS is this not the case in Scotland.

Absolutely not the case. The difference is that in Wales there is a much higher proportion of the population who actually identify Welsh as their first language. In Scotland that percentage is tiny; and the majority of children in GME do not speak any Gaelic outside of school.

MargotsDevil, where are these mythic 4/5 pupil GME classes you speak of? In the central belt primaries that do GME the classes are of similar numbers as mainstream English medium. In units these are often made up of composite classes.

Classes of 4/5 in Gaelic in secondary are not mythical I taught in a Communications Faculty in a state secondary where there were classes of exactly that number.

The pupils who had came through the Gaelic Medium class in the feeder primary were extracted from 5 periods of a range of subjects to allow them to continue. They then chose it formally at options stage.

The teacher only moaned about their marking once the faces of rest of us with 30-33 pupils were somewhat .

Is Stirling too far?

Not really wanting to out myself but think Stirling, Perth & Kinross, Angus.

I was talking of the primary sectors mainly but I do see how in secondary numbers tail off. I know of English medium schools in built up areas who have low numbers once they get up higher. It's not confined to GME. Some people leave at end of P7 which I suppose is inevitable. I still think that pound for pound GME is no more expensive than its English counterpart. Teachers are paid the same regardless. Kids need to be taught regardless.

The numbers in the major central belt areas are increasing and will likely continue to do so if GME in Glasgow and Edinburgh is anything to go by. Transport needs to be addressed certainly and local authorities who don't provide GME need to either step up or have solid links - paid for(?) - to enable children (parents) to access GME if they want it. It has cross party support in the Scottish parliament.

I personally would like to see more funding towards GME especially for resources and teacher provision. It's high time after years of systematic top down corrosion and general neglect of the language and its original heartland.

All niche subjects from Languages, Drama, Philosophy through to Music Tech, I'd even argue Advanced Highers, are expensive to deliver.

I am an experienced (decrepit) English teacher so can easily have 2 classes of Higher and Nat 5 making up my senior phase timetable with 30 a piece.I can also teach Drama but might only have 15. So cost per pupil is More. However, I strongly defend subjects that a movement away from the traditional core. Our curriculum in Senior Phase is narrow enough.

In primary I know that (in an area mentioned up thread) parents do opt for Gaelic Immersion due to smaller classes then bin it at secondary when the advantage is lost .And I don't blame them one bit, we all do what we hope is the best for our DC.