Primary Vs Secondary, what are the differences?

[Arkadia]

I was wondering, what are the main differences between P7 and S1?What I am talking about is the way the curriculum is delivered. Being CoE across the board I am not sure what to expect.
To be honest, I found my primary (recently ranked excellent) a glorified kindergarten in true CoE spirit, but maybe things will change at secondary level, or will they?

Main difference is doing specific subjects - and having to move around the school

Where CfE makes the difference is that they actually have to apply the knowledge across the subjects. So for example some Maths questions may involve a degree of Physics awareness and vice versa.

I'd have really struggled with that, as I realised that despite getting As for both Physics and Maths for my Highers (a loooong time ago ), I realised when I was doing Maths as an extra 1st year subject at Uni (fortunately didn't need to pass as I was repeating 2nd year in order to change one of my Honours subjects) that the bit of Maths that I struggled with was Applied Maths - and that would also have explained those areas of Physics I'd struggled with (fortunately in the Higher exam that year there had been a lot of electrics questions so I was able to avoid the momentum ones)

But there again, if I'd been taught the CfE way (rather than the exam fodder, rote learning way), maybe I'd have been better at both Applied Maths and Physics

So even though I got better exam results than ds, I'd say his depth of knowledge and his ability to cross reference is better (at equivalent ages - of course with my added years, my ability to see the bigger picture is much better )

@Prettybird, but are kids going to struggle in S1? I might be overly negative about it, but it seems to me that they do sod all in primary. All sorts of extracurricular activities, but not a great deal of attention to core subjects.
Say, their knowledge of the ukulele is probably on par with their knowledge of fractions (and I kid you not) and their ability at spelling is similar to their knowledge of French.
Maybe none of that stuff matters, but still... how are teachers at secondary level coping? Do they start maths at a very basic level? Do they expect you to be able to use punctuation, grammar and spelling or it doesn't matter (in true CoE spirit)?

I can only speak from my experience (of just the one ds ): teachers can come along and give their more holistic experience

Ds' old primary school cared about punctuation and grammar as well as ensuring basic numeracy

CfE was introduced formally, iirc, in the P6 of ds' time at primary school - but actually nothing changed at his school as that was the way that they had always taught (partly because it had 60% of its school roll with English as an Additional Language and it was an exemplar of best practice in the way that they dealt with that, with team teaching their normal way of working). The only thing that changed for the negative was the school reports - but as we had a good relationship with the school and ds was ding well, that wasn't an issue for us.

Ds was in the top group for Maths at primary school (the head teacher, whose interest was Maths, took them) and was then in the top set for Maths at school (they set by the September weekend) and didn't seem to have any problems nor did he make any comment about going back over the basics. Ditto with English (although they only set after the October Week). (He'd also been slow to read, only "getting" it at the end of P2 but by the end of P4 was free reading and happily back in the top group for language).

He even missed a period each of English and Maths every week in S1 and S2 because he was in the "school of rugby class" and coped.
Iirc, he did complain about French as they did have to start again from scratch as one of the feeder primaries in particular was so poor in its foundation of the French basics. But everyone was in the same boat for Spanish.

I was a pretty hands off parent at secondary school though as he just got on with his homework, so I don't know much detail. I do recall him asking me for help on some Shakespeare (I think it was "Midsummer's Night Dream") in S1 as that was quite a jump for him - but that was probably because his very scary and intense English teacher was pushing them hard as she said it was a very talented cohort who were already working at Standard Grade level

I remember my brother, whose kids are much younger than ds, complaining about things that their primary school said that they could/couldn't do because of CfE and I knew that it was just bad teaching practice as CfE said nothing of the sort (as I was on the Parent Council at the primary school, I'd gone to a few seminars/workshops on the introduction of CfE as well as the school's own presentation).

@Prettybird, interesting, but I fear only vaguely relevant as you are only part CoE, so things will have changed/developed afterwards. We have been in the CoE from day 1, so I have nothing to compare it with.
I suppose mine is one of the questions to ask when we go and visit the SS.

In all honesty I don't know whether to wish that SS will be extra hard for my child or not. On the one hand you don't want things to get too stressful too soon; on the other... I do feel that we will have to leave kindergarten sooner or later and perhpas it is better sooner rather than later.

You're right, only vaguely relevant: but the point is that the teaching didn't change - they already "taught across subjects - and the school made it very clear that as far as they were concerned, CfE was just "best practice", which they already did their best to follow (and in some cases were the actual leaders ). And from talking with my downstairs neighbours, whose 2 boys followed ds through the same primary school (the younger one is going into S1 this summer, the older one is sitting his Nat 5s at the moment, although he sat Nat 5 English, along with the rest of his class, last year who all got good marks ), nothing really changed in the way that they were taught. So obviously, their elder boy hasn't been adversely affected by CfE, but there again, he was only in it formally from P3 even though the school was already following the principles for years before that

I do acknowledge that the one thing that changed for the worse was the reporting system, so unless you are strongly involved with the school (as dh and I were), you won't get a feel for if your child is having issues

I happen to be a fan of CfE though . I don't think you are, so we both see things through our respective prisms.

Well in my experience they tend to tread water in first year, especially in Maths, trying to get the stragglers up to speed.
I'm afraid my experience of CfE at primary is similar to yours, not secure in the basics leading to a lack of confidence, I have had to do a lot of re- teaching of basics to make sure they can cope.
Going on about " growth mindset" doesn't compensate for poor teaching!

I think there isn't such a jump between the two. Still lots of group project work, poster making, video making etc in S1.

My experience at primary has not been great. My DC was identified as having ASN in P6, the holistic nature of CfE masked this. Like most aspects of education it depends on the quality of teaching, many experienced professionals I have spoken to maintain they had always used this kind of approach but my DC have also had newly qualified teachers who seemed to use it as an excuse to deliver half of the curriculum by 'spreading' the learning. My eldest is nearly 20 and youngest is 7, the 7 year old doesn't seem to have anything like the firm grounding of the basics that the eldest received.

Just read the latest replies. Never got a notification...
My personal concerns revolve around SPAG. Mind you, my DD seems still to be towards the top.of the class, but having just seen some of her work I can't but wonder what it looks like at the bottom and whether her English sec teacher will want to kill himself given the task ahead.

My children both had transitions from P5 with the school and both moved with ease.

One thing which some seemed to struggle with in both year groups was the making new friends and some noses being out of joint.

Work wise both seemed ok in the changes.

I did complain in S3 about ds's reports negatively saying he was too quiet. The guidance teacher agreed with my point that he might be quiet compared to his sister but that should be taken into consideration instead of trying to force the "confident individuals" under CfE.

Incidentally, my half siblings attended this school in the late 70's early 80's and it had a poor reputation. But it's really turned around and although the league tables go on 1 sitting of Highers. Dd left with 8 Highers but it's not counted because it wasn't in one sitting. But they were A&B's.