Catch 22 schooling / housing - please help?

[DMJ2019]

Hi. I have just accepted a research fellowship at the University of Stirling and will be making the move from Norway to Scotland with my family this summer (note: none of us are Norwegian - partner is a Scot (Aberdeen) but has been living outside the UK, I am Dutch, my children are Dutch-American). My daughters will enter secondary, S1 and S5. We are considering basing ourselves in Glasgow west end or south side (Shawlands area) or in the Stirling area. We'll take a trip in a week's time to do some 'reconnaissance' :)

My dilemma is the catch 22 situation we find ourselves in with respect to schooling and housing. I have been informed by schools that they will not consider enrolment until I can show proof of permanent address. Choosing an apartment will be within a specific catchment area, but schools in Glasgow say that even if we live in the designated catchment area, the school cannot guarantee a place, as it will depend on available space. I also worry that if we cannot secure housing until this summer, I will not be able to register my girls for school until August, and they might not get into our school of choice at all. Does anyone have experience with this and suggestions on how to mitigate the situation?

The schools we are considering visiting are Dunblane and Wallace near Stirling, Hillhead and Hyndland in the west end, and Shawlands and Holyrood on the southside? Any thoughts on these and other suggestions?

In general, we are looking for a school that can provide good support to my daughters during this transition, as it is their second move to a new country in recent years and a big shift from the Norwegian education system. In addition, DD2 has diagnosed dyslexia, ADHD and other learning challenges. DD1 is set, based on age, to enter S5 but I wonder if going back a year to S4 might help prepare her better for exams next year?

Sorry long post! I would really appreciate your thoughts and insights! TIA

Are you aware that the Scottish schools go back mid August? Glasgow is something like the 14th or 15th August (ds is now at Uni so I no longer have the dates at my finger tips ) - I think the Stirlingshire schools are about a week or so but others can confirm.

Commuting 2-3 days would be bearable . Though if you are getting the train then I’d really recommend looking at the connections, there are some express trains from Glasgow but you definitely need to factor in travel at either end. At the Stirling end you’d need to take a bus but they’d be fairly frequent ones to the university.

I can’t help in detail about learning support but I’m sure if you visit Wallace/Dunblane they will be able to provide more info on that front.

What kind of activities do you enjoy as a family? The Stirling area including BofA and Dunblane does have some nice cafes! Sport is very well catered for, Wallace would be a better pick for school sport than Dunblane (just my opinion!). There is a very lively trad music scene, there is access to the Conervatoire via the music centre it runs in Stirling (strings only). The Tollbooth/MacRobert are also very good.

As your DC are high school age then having train stations where they can independently travel to Glasgow/Edinburgh is great.

What the area doesn’t have is the depth of diversity that can be found in Glasgow that Pretty talks about.

Also on the higher front some will be easier to pick up than others as they are a stand alone unit and can be ‘crashed’ i.e. sat without taking the nat 5. Typically the social sciences, on the languages front if your DD is particularly competent then I don’t see that being an insurmountable problem either. Music is a good option if your DD can play two instruments.

That said I’m sure the schools will be able to advise much better than me!

If she is starting the Highers then I don't see that pupils having starting some of the curriculum in June being an issue to be honest. AT least a third (school figures) change their minds over the summer/don't get the results they wanted and change courses when they start in August. I think our schools start back Tuesday 18th August but like pb my eye is off the ball as DS2 leaves school now - 2 exams to go!

2 year highers definitely a possibility.

Wallace is the school of sport, but a lot of that is focussed on the early years and it also depends on what sport. Dunblane is school of tennis. Many pupils at both schools do will nationally and internationally. Dunblane doesn't have a pool but if DD is into swimming at club level, that's based in the uni anyway. There are really opportunities for all sports from canoeing to triatholon, rowing, athletics, rugby, football, fencing, mountain biking, rugby, basketball, judo etc etc. My Dss did art and pottery via the Tolbooth and they also have Drama etc as do MacRobert and there is also a stage school (Stageworks), Music tuition is also available locally and there is a band club based out of the Tolbooth too. Dunblane put at least a couple of shows on a year. Scouts are also very active (lots of girls too).

I wouldn't say it was as diverse as Glasgow but the Uni being here does mean that there are DC of lecturers etc in both schools and DSs have had friends from the Netherlands and Sweden and France and eastern europe. Might be worth having a look at school websites and twitter feeds etc but I'd say Dunblane's is not that great.

If you have any specific questions about activities etc, I'll be happy to help.

@prettybird, yes I will make sure DDs are back for school in time - I have not booked their return tickets yet

@celtiethree and @WaxOnFeckOff, my DD1 has been involved in competitive cheer and loves it, so I hope there will be an opportunity to continue that. Some googling pointed me to (inter)nationally competitive teams in both Glasgow and Edinburgh. Gymnastics locally would also be of interest to her, I think, as I could not find much re cheerleading in the area (perhaps something in Dunblane?). DD2 loves to draw and music, although none play instruments. Oslo has been horrendously expensive for extracurricular activities, with no offerings through the schools, so have not been able to provide as much. Swimming and judo would also appeal to SS2.

As a family, we would like to do more theatre, museums, parks, travel (road trips) etc. Even simple things, such as going out for a meal together, has been prohibitive here in Norway, due to cost. I would enjoy spending more time together, doing different things. And I might like to take a dance or painting class or something .

There is a local Cheerleading Group that is also a competitive group - Planet Cheer, they train in Dunblane there was a big competition at a Stirling Sports Centre yesterday. There is (or used to be) gymnastics in Auchterarder, also there is the Central Gymnastics Academy in Stirling.

If your youngest likes music the Trad musics lessons (guitar/clarsach/fiddle/accordian/whistle) are very affordable and they can start there from beginner - though many start when at primary school.

One thing that is not great about the Stirling area are the lack of quality restaurants - there are some but what Stirling lacks Edinburgh/Glasgow covers.

There are some opportunities for art outside school within the local area - we've not really accessed this, one of my DC is very arty and travels to Glasgow (where there is excellent art provision, look at Cass Art and The Glasgow School or Art but there are plenty more) on his own to take lessons.

Thanks @celtiethree! It sounds like there are quite a few offerings for the DCs in the local area :)

We so much want to get this move right for my DDs, as the transition from US to Norway was rather difficult. I really want to get the schools right in order to situate ourselves in the right area for the coming years, so that there won't be any more shifts in schooling until end of secondary, as it is so disruptive.

I hope that the schools can give us a better indication of potential admission, so we can begin to narrow down the area.

Anyone have any input re living and schooling on the west end of Glasgow versus southside, i.e. Hillhead or Hyndland?

BTW, I am really grateful for all your kind input. It makes me excited to move to such a welcoming place :)

I don't think I would fancy a commute from the Southside of Glasgow to Stirling Uni - you can easily get in to Glasgow central, then would have to walk to queen st & get a train to Stirling, then a bus.

Just to throw something else in to the mix, I'd consider Linlithgow as the high school is good & it's an easy commute to Glasgow, Edinburgh & Stirling. But it may lack some of the activities your children like eg cheerleading.

From all of what you have said, I'd go for Bridge of Allan. Nice cafes & shops, good transport links. Or Dunblane - not as pretty though.

Both Hillhead and Hyndland are fine - although arguably Hyndland is better (because it covers more of the Uni area?). Shawlands and Hyndland headteachers have a friednly rivalry. Hyndland apparently has a lot of the Uni staff kids and is also quite international. Its demographic is mixed - but not such a high proportion of SIMD1 and 2 as Shawlands (Scottish Index of Multiple Deprivation) and not quite as international ( according the British Council, Shawlands is/was the most international school in the UK).

The cafe culture is probably better in the West End because of the Uni compared to the Southside, although Shawlands (the area) has a growing and vibrant cafe culture. The West End also has easier access to the subway than the Southside, as only one side (mine ) has easy access to it. On the other hand, there are 3 (4?) different suburban railway lines, going in to Glasgow Central, for you to access, plus good bus services. If you were getting the train to Stirling, you'd need to walk from Central to Glasgow Queen Street - but it's only about a 10 minute walk.

I think celtie has covered off a lot of the dance/cheer/gymnastics stuff, once again I'd mention scouts as there are opportunities for the gang show etc too. Lots of local kids get parts in the Panto at the Macrobert too - it's really good!

We moved to this area when DC were toddlers and it's been a great place to raise kids, they've made lovely friends and been involved in loads though none of them kept a sport up. We have a select group of places to eat out in the area and manage okay (if you like Indian food that's particularly well served in terms of quality!) and sometimes jump on the train into the city for something special. I think you'll find it generally a lot more affordable for activities than Norway, even with 2 growing teens. Loads of stuff for free too, nice drives and walks with a picnic. People are generally very welcoming. In my street we have scots, english, indian, south african, italian, canadian and everyone gets along :)

I actually think the center of Dunblane is looking not too bad at the moment - I don't live there though.

I definitely think it's a better bet to commute from Stirling/BofA/Dunblane to central Glasgow than vice versa. DS usually gets the quick train and it's about half an hour so if you can get somewhere walkable to one of the stations then that would sort that out since you will be without a licence for a bit.

This is walkable into Stirling and to the Uni and to Wallace High:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-61971507.html

Quite close to the railway line though it's the Stirling/Alloa line so not that busy - I wouldn't necessarily buy there but would be a decent rental (though a bit glittery!).

This would be in catchment for Stirling high but could train it to Dunblane - it would be a bus up to the Uni but walkable to stirling station:

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-60875955.html

This is in Dunblane - futher end from the High School but most DC walk or jump on a local bus to Tesco - walkable to the station (i'd say about 15 mins) about 30 mins walk to school.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-61622880.html

Haha @WaxOnFeckOff , I saw that first listing and thought the same thing - wasn't sure I could cope with the abundance of pink and purple! I've made note of the other properties as well and will see which we can view when we visit next week.

Do you know a good estate agent in the area? The number of listings that meet our needs are really limited around Stirling, and it might be useful to enlist someone's help.

@prettybird, perhaps you know an agent I could contact in the Shawlands area?

We love Indian food, so that's a bonus! :)

Lots to take into account re these different areas and schools. Will continue to mull things over and visit soon. Will keep you all posted of our progress and where we end up.

Some other questions will come up I'm sure, so stay tuned

It's quite "special" :o

It's mainly selling rather than renting where I live but going by the odd signs that are up, Slater Hogg or Clyde Property locally or Cathedral City estates for Dunblane though they are creeping down further into BofA and Stirling.

Not sure what your budget is, but Riverside is also a good bet? Handy for town and the train station and also Wallace catchment.

www.s1homes.com/Houses-for-rent/2018031004522206.shtml

www.s1homes.com/Houses-for-rent/2017042520455627.shtml

This is in a lovely estate, again Wallace catchment, bus route to uni and station but walkable in 20-30 mins to everywhere

Again far end of Dunblane but really nice estate

www.s1homes.com/Houses-for-rent/2012091301292920.shtml

Ouch to some of those rental prices esp. that last one! Though it’s HMO compliant so probably looking for students.

This one is near Dunblane High, apologies if Wax has already posted:

www.cathedralcityestates.co.uk/properties/old-doune-road/

“That last one” referred to the one in the Wallace Catchment

I think the last Wallace one has an HMO licence so they are banking on the rent being split between 4/5 people. I'm clearly in the wrong game...

The old doune road one is literally just round the corner from the school your DC would thank you for the short commute! Just a walk down to the train station too for direct train to Glasgow, BofA or Stirling

Thanks for the property leads! The old doune road one is lovely, but yes, ouch, steep rent Unfortunately, it definitely falls outside my budget. My max is 1500 GBP, preferably furnished.

I will keep checking with the companies you mentioned to explore options :)

I would look at S1 Homes and Rightmove online for their rental properties and see where you get to.

It's also Slater Hogg and Clyde around here and I think Corum is also still around (not been looking at houses for sale or rent myself ) But there are also specialist letting agencies (Martin & co, Houstons - not sure how widespread/good they are)

But the online aggregate websites above should also point you in the right direction. Also look at Gumtree.

In your position, working in Stirling, I'd probably look more seriously at Bridge of Allan, Dunblane or Stirling itself than Glasgow unless being in a city is really important to you and your daughters. And that's despite being such a passionate advocate of Southside living and schooling ( and I'm actually a Northsider by upbringing )

A friend moved from abroad and ended up with unfurnished but just picked up stuff on gumtree quite cheaply.

Hi OP (and also local MNs who I may even know in RL? We live close to Stirling uni, my DH commutes to Glasgow (the dream would be a job at Stirling uni in terms of the 10 minute walk to work! It’s a lovely campus and lots of people where I live work and study there) We moved up from a big city this time last year to be back near family and found ourselves with same school pushback re address- although we were primary level- but as PPs have pointed out, it’s really not like the city struggle for places - We got accepted by applying as an out of catchment place/visited school to explain our situation re address. Found out two weeks before end of school term we had a place (and that was with local private school closing which pushed the numbers up for intake). Family at Dunblane high, but live there, all very happy with school, friends children in our street go there by train, so they do have intake outside Dunblane primaries/residents.
We tend just go into Edinburgh/Glasgow for more theatre, restaurant choice...but great local independent shops and restaurants. MacRoberts Arts at uni is great for cinema, live performance etc. Stirling has a good arts and creative community, plus there’s lots for kids and families. Some great places to eat out and fresh air, lovely views of castle- fabulous day trip/weekends to lochs, hills, car-free bike tracks all make it quite a special place to live. Try agents in Dunblane and Bridge of Allan (we got an initial rental via Halliday Homes, but also found Cathedral City really helpful too...helpful too that in Scotland you don’t have to sign rental agreements that tie you to a year or two, so you could try renting easy enough with just a month’s notice to vacate if you decided it wasn’t the right place for you.

@prettybird, did you make your comment re choosing a place near Stirling due to the commute involved with Glasgow? or something else?

@WeeBitSleepy, hi and thanks for your response. I will discuss with the schools next week our situation re address. I guess even though moving, you were already in-country. Several schools told me that my girls have to be present in-country to register them, which adds an extra complication as we are currently still in Olso and they are leaving to the USA on 19 June to visit their dad for the summer and will not be able to return until begin August. I really would not want to leave registration until then, would I?

I'm glad to hear you enjoy living there. I am looking forward to taking up my position at the University of Stirling - it is a lovely campus :)

I can't be certain, but I think you being in the UK would be enough rather than the girls needing to be here?

Hopefully it will all be clearer after your visit. Maybe you having documentation re your employment with the Uni will help too so I'd bring whatever confirmations you have with you too.

I night have missed it somewhere, but did you say what your DH will be doing/will he be able to drive?