Scottish National Standardised Tests - results sharing

[User450246]

My dd is being tested this year (p4), but the school aren’t sharing any results - they say it informs general assessments and gets fed back as part of next teacher meeting in a non specific way but the next teacher meeting is October, will be a different teacher by then and in the 5 minute consultation the feedback amounts to ‘fine’ and has no meaningful content.

Does anyone else’s school share the SNSA results?
Do we have a legal right to see the test results?

Yes that’s a good point I’d love to know what information the council thinks I ought to have had by now.

I think part of the problem is how broad the levels are. So to be told that my child is achieving their expected level isn’t enough detail for many parents. My kid’s school has recently received a good inspection report and the inspectors were very happy with the details parents were getting in pupil learning plans etc.

Although I wouldn’t want my kids taught to test, I would like the amount of information on the kids achievements.

Our PLP stuff is only target updates - child has improved at catching a ball this term and has worked hard to do it. I’ve no idea what this target means in terms of the expected level or what the next step on from this is.

Or child is more confident speaking in x foreign language this term. No idea on what level they are at against what is expected or what might be good for their age.

I know, it seems that this level of non feedback is somewhat standard for Scotland.

Our curriculum evening was a total joke - it was 10 minutes long and the maths section amounted to ‘we will be teaching maths’, it was a farce.

However good a school is (and let’s not get into how schools are measured and the myriad problems with getting data on that!) it’s possible that your child could achieve more if you got more specific feedback on where they struggled and excelled.

I think you are right User, it seems to be standard and it’s really frustrating. I’m really at a loss on what to do

As a primary teacher with over 20 years experience I can say that the reports I write nowadays are bland and inoffensive. The boxes are so small that I can’t write in any great detail and the next steps have to be generic enough to not tie the next teacher into doing anything specific. It’s a travesty what is happening in education. We used to have a good system that was highly regarded around the world.

yes I can't help thinking the effects of not allowing parents to reinforce and bolster what is being learned through lack of information is going to have bad long term effects. It is on the other hand, doing a great service to the tutoring industry.

SNSA are not achievement of a level tests that are administered at the end of course work ( or they are not meant to be!!!). The very fact that they are administered in a particular year instead of at the end of level indicates they are not reflecting a completed course "grade" as time scales for completion of levels will vary. As the test is "responsive" , pupils will take varying routes through the SNSA assessment and so comparing John to Jill parentally will not be that useful .
They are for diagnostic purposes and are only a part of teacher information for achievement of a level .They shouldn't be confused or equated with 5-15 end of Level Assessments.

I'm not interested in how my DD is doing against any other kids, I'm interested in finding information out about how she is doing relative to the curriculum and surely it is doing that as it's asking them questions based on the curriculum? I'd like to see her scores and what was being asked, not her scores relative to her friends or her cohort although the national band etc is useful.

There is a lot of negative stuff said about parents and how we just want test results so we can give ourselves a pat on the back if she's in x position in the class - I couldn't care less about that, I would like better information on where my DD is at, as I've said.

I understand that the rhetoric is that parents don't need to know, fundamentally the feedback to parents is lacking.

I've had so many parents say they're against testing - right, but testing and twice yearly assessments ARE done so why is the feedback to parents so non specific?

it's perfectly possible to give me data about how my DD is doing without sharing anything about other individuals in the class or school.

I hear 'the tests are a partial picture', 'not that useful' etc as an excuse to tell us nothing specific - these are dismissive and not positive statements about what ideal feedback should like. Where is this complete picture I'm supposed to be having that's better than the data?

I like a bit of data. Of course numbers are never going to be the whole story.

User, I don't see why your head teacher wouldn't share the information you've asked for - you make a compelling case. Have you written / emailed in those terms?

I have indeed, I’m meeting up with them in the next week or so to try and get a better handle on things, fingers crossed

(I'd just like to add, I'm not suggesting that only parents who make a compelling case should be entitled to a discussion around the data. But I know that in plenty schools a request to discuss your DC's data would be honoured and it should be like that for everyone.)

Excellent, hope it goes well!

27/04/2019 21:35 User450246

However good a school is (and let’s not get into how schools are measured and the myriad problems with getting data on that!) it’s possible that your child could achieve more if you got more specific feedback on where they struggled and excelled.

^^ This. I'm increasingly frustrated at not knowing what to do to help my children improve and consolidate (mid Primary). They are very happy at school, pastoral care has been brilliant, but so little feedback on how to help them keep up or catch up.

@Tidy2018

why not ask to meet the HT too to discuss? -

In theory the Scottish education feedback is supposed to be more complete than other education systems as it doesn't merely rely on potentially faulty data. The rhetoric of trusting the teachers shouldn't mean keeping parents in the dark on where they can help their children so we should challenge on this basis.

I agree it gets more serious about this point, I'm pursuing as I'm trying to get a sense of whether my DD is doing worse now, she's certainly not a confident individual so that CfE goal is not being met - every year the only thing they have consistently mentioned is confidence but no overlapping plan that crosses years and no sustained improvement.

The feedback's been no different from P2 on (the P1 teacher gave detailed feedback, so I don't know why that didn't happen for later years).

We've had a lot of teacher turnover and that probably doesn't help in terms of consistently providing the same sorts of feedback

User - thanks for your reply. Yes, I think a meeting with HT is necessary before the holidays. However, at previous meetings re SEN I have asked for copies of reports and decisions, and received sbsolutely nothing, and I do mean nothing, as a matter of course.

SALT did eventually send me something useful, but came across as surprised and reluctant when I first asked.

The overall impression I get is that the school very much wants to keep parents at a distance. I can't assume that they will tell me anything that would help me help my children.

I'm close to giving up on the school. It seems impenetrable. It's as if they only respond to trigger words, and somehow can't hear my questions.

We can't afford private school, so I'm thinking of gping privately for an investigation into SEN. That would give me something concrete to work with.

On the private SEN assessments, I'd want to know whether they'd be recognised by the school, Ed psychs & NHS @Tidy2018 before I spent the ££££ on them - it is sad that you can get a SEN assessment in < 3 months in the private sector and wait ridiculous times on the NHS. The private ones can benefit you to know what to work on first in terms of strategies to help but of course the strategies might require more financial outlay to be taught etc - a friend is having social comms lessons privately for her DC and they're so expensive although the assessment is the biggest outlay and the lessons are a smaller monthly expense.

You might want to ask on the SN board for people's experiences of having private SEN assessments and how useful it was Tidy if you haven't done that.

I can't tell how much of the 'parents should be kept at a distance' feel is due to staff shortages, and how much is attitude. I'm very sympathetic to the shortages but when the information NEVER comes, and you are left to constantly badger for things that never turn up whilst being treated as a PITA...and meanwhile your DC is suffering you start to feel a bit less sympathetic.

User - thank uou for your very helpful post. There's a lot to think about, and I'll try the SN board. Wishing you and your DD the best.

Thanks Tidy2018, I had a very productive meeting with the HT and teacher yesterday and think we’re on the way to a clearer picture, so definitely advise people to ask for a meeting.

I don’t know whether the standard feedback will improve, they seem so time constrained and said a lot of parents don’t want details which sounds as though it may be true. Can’t help thinking a few key metrics and some key areas to support your child on per feedback session wouldn’t be useful to most but obviously I can only see my perspective.

Glad it went well User. I do agree that there are a lot of parents who don't want that kind of information, but you are entitled to see all data that is held about your children.

Ask the Head.
I saw my kid's last year, but had to ask for it. However, do not keep your hopes up, it is singularly uninformative. For a start you don't get to see the questions themselves (seemingly nobody does because they change from pupil to pupil), only the category. Then you will see something like a thermometer with a red dot symbolising your child, and that will give you an idea where he sits amongst his peers.

Apologies... I didn't scroll far enough. You have already done that ;)