Glasgow High Schools Performance

[YellowStraw]

I have two kids - 2 and 1 so not near School age yet, but when they are they'll start one year after one another...

Just having a look at league tables and all the Glasgow High Schools score pretty badly compared with surrounding areas?

We had considered Glasgow Gaelic School but even that doesn't perform to well in comparison to Bishopbriggs / East Renfrewshire...

Am I being ridiculous to consider moving to an area where they'd be in catchment for better schools? Is this a common thing? Seems so far away to have to even think about it, but realistically we'd need at least two years to save for a house move. What's people's opinions on the Glasgow Schools?

Look at the tables in more detail - with particular reference to their performance against their specific demographic. You'll find schools like Shawlands Academy and Hyndland Academy which outperform their "expected" results.

Ds has just completed S6 at Shawlands and is off to Aberdeen Uni to do International Relations (with an Unconditional). I can't speak highly enough of the school, which expects and delivers the best for its young people. But it doesn't spoon feed them - so it also prepares them well for Uni and doesn't have a high drop-out rate in 1st year Uni, unlike East Renfrewshire (can't find a reference for that, but have had it confirmed by a number of education professionals, including lecturers responsible for 1st year cohorts at Glasgow Unis. In fact, one of them corrected me: said "East Ren doesn't have A high drop out rate. It has THE highest drop out rate!" )

....and I say that as someone who expected to move back "home" to Bearsden/Milngavie after I had ds, having gone to Bearsden Academy

Watch out for catchment changes that are due to happen again - it's causing mayhem at moment for some feeder schools and with major house building going on then older houses are getting moved out of zones and spaces are fewer and fewer.

Defo check the education inspector reports and local areas for issues etc.

To be honest, it's about 10 years until your DC start high school and a lot can happen in that time. What I would say is that the academic performance is not the only important criteria and it doesn't mean that the teaching is good. High performing schools tend to have some things in common, they tend to be in more affluent areas with intelligent, well paid, engaged and supportive parents, there is little in the way of disciplinary issues and tutors can be paid for if and when required. The main benefit that isn't down to parenting, is the lack of disciplinary issues which tend to allow for a calmer atmosphere and better attitude to learning. Clever children can do well in any school. My friends DS is likely to have 8 As in his Nat 5s from a middle of the pack Glasgow High. Obtusely my DS2 is underperforming at a highly ranked school (not Glasgow/east ren) and we feel he may have Dyspraxic issues as well as other things but feel there is a real lack of support/experience. I think they are used to parents just doing their job for them tbh.

On another note, I've also had two in successive years all the way through school, it can be difficult as they tend to compare themselves even if we don't. It's also apparent that for all the teachers discussions of preparing lesson plans etc. the DC pretty much follow exactly the same in the same years as their sibling did, to the point where DS2 has taken in DS1s model of the titanic etc and passed it off as his own...

Oh and I think if you look at the reports on-line now, it does give you an indication of how the school performs for different categories of pupils. This is worth looking at as you'd want a school that is doing the best for all groups as it probably tells you more about the teaching and leadership. However, as I say, a lot can happen in 10 years, it only takes a few changes of personnel at the top for the entire pattern to change.

Good point re catchments.

Glasgow is in the middle of changing to be exclusively "delineated" as opposed to a mix of "delineated" and "non-delineated" as well (I think I've got it the right way round : akaik it means that all the catchments would be fixed for both primary and secondary and even if you make a successful placing request to a primary school, you don't then automatically go to its feeder secondary but would be enrolled in the catchment secondary).

Also, schools (especially the better ones) are getting very full (there is a bulge going through the system) and whereas previously placing requests to eg Shawlands Academy would be successful, now they're at capacity and having to refuse placing requests.

Ds was himself a placing request - he'd probably have been fine at Bellahouston because we'd have made sure he was but we decided he'd be happier at Shawlands and it was also starting the School of Rugby and he's a very keen rugby player)

....of course, things could have changed by the time your children are at the relevant ages

Most of my friends moved to East Ren; East Dun or chose the Gaelic school for that very reason.
However their DCs are school age, and as a PP said, you're looking very far ahead. Schools/catchments/results can all change.
Personally I went to school in the west end and loved it. The majority of my cohort had their choice of RG unis. But I do feel the demographic of the West end has changed in the last ten years and that will filter down to the schools and the results.

The middle class exodus to the burbs or the Gaelic school leaves Glasgow in a tough spot. Look at the FSM and the SIMD rankings for each school and compare them to the East Ren schools.

Glasgow schools have so many issues to overcome because of the presumption of mainstreaming, the policy of reducing exclusions and the effects of poverty.

Well plenty of people do move for so called “better” schools so it wouldn’t be ridiculous to consider it. I don’t live either in the Glasgow boundary or East Ren/East Dun but in another area where the school seems to be absolutely fine. As others have said there are more than just higher results to think about and you don’t know what your education children’s needs will be at this stage. Having engaged and supportive parents will make the biggest difference. I don’t have personal experience of the East Ren schools but I do know people who go there and it’s not something I’m that fussed about for my own kids. I think they’ll achieve their potential (which is different for both as one is very bright and the other has ASN) where we live. It does bug me a bit when some parents bore on about how their schools push kids etc, you don’t need to be in East Ren for that, our schools push kids to achieve their full potential as well! That’s kind of the point of school after all isn’t it ;)

Depending on how much you like where you live and the price differential relative to East Ren etc you could also consider private school for later years of secondary. Glasgow private schools are relatively affordable and plentiful and will always make room for bright senior pupils ime.

Hi everybody,

Thank you so much for all the replies - plenty good for thought!

I feel a bit ridiculous for looking so far ahead but we live in rented accommodation at the moment are are looking to buy before the boys start primary school so we're settled so it's just trying to give myself of ideas where to look. Wherever we move to will probably be the home we're in until they're finished their education, and I'd ideally want them to go to high school with the same friend circle as primary hence why I'm giving some thought to high schools already...

If I'm being honest I feel completely out my depth with the whole thing! So thank you for talking me through it. We're currently in the east end of Glasgow, so although I do really like the look of Gaelic school one of my thoughts is that they'd not likely be living near any of their friends. I'd like to imagine them being walking distance to their school friends houses for going out to play etc which is one of the main points that puts me off.

Really appreciate the replies, and now understand that there's probably more to league tables that meets the eye... and interesting to note that the "best performing" schools have worse drop out rates at University!

If you really want the Gaelic school, I think there are/ were entry requirements and getting into the nursery helps, so check that out sooner rather than later.

In the East End I would particularly recommend St Francis of Assisi, which feeds into St Andrew's. St Bridget's also has a very good reputation. Some children cross the border into North Lanarkshire and go to St Ambrose, the others go to St Andrew's. St Andrew's has had very good leavers' destinations (sent a boy to Oxbridge last year IIRC).

Garrowhill Primary gets a good rep, but it feeds into Bannerman which I don't rate as much.

Your other option would be going into North Lanarkshire (cheaper than East Ren), some good schools out that way and a Gaelic school in Cumbernauld. East Dunbartonshire also (Bishopbriggs that way).

@MealDeal Where we are Bannerman and St Andrews are the two closest schools if we were to stay in this area... in fact it would be Mount Vernon Primary probably feeding in to Bannerman. Bannerman actually surprised me with how high on the league tables it was for Glasgow because I've never considered it a particularly good school (still bad compared to other areas though)

I think the Gaelic school nursery takes their names down from 2 actually so I'll get on that! Thanks for reminding me!

Bannerman was the school i was referring to earlier where friends DS is doing very well.

iirc the family need to show a commitment to Gaelic too so be prepared for the entire family to have to attend Gaelic lessons. As for being able to play with friends, pupils for the Gaelic school come from across Glasgow, so you're right that your DCs wouldn't be able to just wander out to play with their friends.
Bannerman has always had a solid reputation but as a PP said St Andrews has had some amazing results (taking into account demographic and catchment) in the last few years. Again, though, a change of HT or/and SMT and you have no idea what they will be like once your DCs are high school age.

I know it probably is true that if they're going to do well in school they'll excel anywhere... as people have said home life / parental support probably plays a better

Myself and DP would be prepared to learn Gaelic (DP mum speaks Gaelic and is from up north so she could help too). It's just I can't shake that feeling that although being bilingual and going to a school with a great reputation would be good for them... I don't know if it's worth sacrificing them having their school friends on their doorstop and the whole community thing (although I don't know how much kids even go out and play any more!)

From personal experience, i'd say that going up to high school with your cohort from primary isn't very important. At most there will be only a couple of kids from the class in each 1st year reg class and they make new friends anyway. Given the choice, I think it's better to be local at primary age as that's when they are more likely to be out playing or wanting to go round for friends. Early high school seems to be spend on-line socialising and later high school they are pretty independent as long as there is transport, they can meet their friends anywhere.

I certainly don’t think you are being ridiculous looking so very far ahead
Lots of people move to East Ren/East Dunbartonshire for the schools (mainly ,they are also nice places to live!)
That’s not to say lots of children in Glasgow schools don’t do very well
But for lots of people (me included) moving was the safe option and I certainly regret it

Don’t regret it 🍷

Mine attend a high school in Glasgow with a very mixed demographic. They are achieving very well indeed as are their peers. The results do not look good on appear but the pupils are supported to go to university or onto vocational courses or apprenticeships.

The Gaelic school gets very good results but it is definitely a very middle class enclave. I don’t think there are any children on free school meals attending that school even though it is situated in Anderston.

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There's a lot of misinformation on this thread about the Gaelic School. Firstly no one is obliged to learn the language or attend classes. Parents are encouraged but never obliged. Secondly there are pupils on free school meals, and lone parent families and shock horror working class parents. (Me). It is a commitment because you end up comparing your child with your neighbour's and see them progressing in a different direction or speed. Very much s marathon however and not a sprint. By p7 the kids are achieving the same level and higher in two languages as that of their English medium peers.

@MaybesAye May I ask, how does it work with your kids school friends etc? Do many / any of them stay nearby? And is it a lot of work to help them maintain their school friendships if not?

I love the idea of Gaelic School, and I actually probably would use it as an opportunity to learn a bit - I think I'd find it enjoyable rather than a task - but it's more just the idea they potentially won't have the same relationships with their peers as they would if they were nearer?

I'd appreciate your thoughts!

As it happens I have emailed today to register the oldest one with the nursery, in case this is the route we choose to go down.

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I don’t have an axe to grind about the Gaelic school - but it’s SIMD I take is negligible compared to other high schools in Glasgow which made considerable achievements with an intake of SIMD pupils far higher - eg Notre Dame performs really well with 48% SIMD pupils which leads me to think the quality of education is extremely good.