Are things in schools really so bad?

[Classof2032]

Article in the Scotsman today was that 'teachers are at breaking point' and we're on the cusp of 40% of teachers walking out.

Is it good old fashioned scaremongering or are things really bad?

No private schools in our area so can't comment

I think standards have been falling for at least twenty years or longer, but complacency reigned for far too long.
The headteacher and his team at my school (secondary) are beyond useless and the pupils don't take long to realise this. There's far too much discussing in meetings and working groups and far too little insistence on basic behaviour and punctuality.
I'm sorry to say that the young teachers who've joined our department in the last few years after several colleagues retired are really quite lazy and have disappointingly limited subject knowledge. I hope this isn't so generally, but I'm not exaggerating in our case.
Even a former colleague who was always vehemently anti private education now says if her children were at school stage now she'd definitely consider it.

Do you honk this is a trend in Scotland? And thinking of moving DD from one (primary) school to another due to very aggressive behaviours of others. But is there any point in me doing this, is this just the way things are? Didn't think she'd be contending with so much so early in life

Honk?? Really must proof read 😂

Last year, nothing was done in our school about bad behaviour and it was as if these kids and their parents were running the show. We told the HT we wanted to take back ownership of our school and there has been a great improvement so far. Kids are excluded and parents are taken in and told that staff will not be spoken to inappropriately.

You may be lucky and move your DD to a better school.

According to this thread on uni applications teacher training places are being cut in Edinburgh and Glasgow. If there's a teacher shortage which looks like worsening in the next few years, why would you cut teacher training? Is someone not telling the truth? Or is it simply incompetence and different bits of the system not joining up?

Oh I dunno, I think I am slowly turning into "that parent".

Webiste says first point of contact is with the childs pastoral care teacher, I try to do that and here I am 5 weeks later still waiting. 2 ignored emails, one cancelled meeting and 2 chase up calls for the meeting I had to rearrange later and I start to feel like I am being unreasonable. It's not that any of these individual points doesn't have a reason but it's the fact that when you add them together it's rubbish and I'm still waiting.

In the meantime my son is telling me it's a waste of time as most teachers really don't care.

And that's without listing the catalogue of disaters I am dealing with in relation to my older son.

I appreciate that people are busy. That isn't my or my sons' fault. It seems to be easier just to not bother and for the child to leave the school.

I find myself being on the receiving end of contstant apologies and it really means nothing to me anymore.

Maybe people should leave teaching becasue it seems like half of them are simply going through the motions.

How much would those in the know say that 'standards have fallen'
(is this due to CforE)

and

how much more assessment and targets are recently being put in place?

I think standards have fallen but wouldn’t necessarily link that to CfE. I’m certainly still teaching similar things in a similar way from how I did at SG. (Secondary teacher)

think the increase in poverty and deprivation is one of the major reasons for standards falling - leaving aside drugs, alcohol and neglect - when you’re struggling to feed your kids, and keep them safe, reading and practising times table fall down the priority list.

Plus the general devaluing of education in our society and the denigration of teachers doesn’t help. When a lot of (not all!) parents have no respect for teachers, it’s hard to imagine their children having any.

Pupils generally have a pretty poor attitude - even lovely, polite, well brought up pupils are less likely to bring equipment and homework rates in my school, particularly among seniors, are extremely bad. A lot of pupils effectively take no responsibility for themselves and their own education, and this does not help standards.

As a parent I've always tried to be supportive and encouraged my DSs to be the same. WIthout fail they are described as "lovely" "a pleaseure to teach" etc. Hoever it doesn't seem to be working both ways. I quick look at some of the recent threads on here will give some background to my current issues, but to highlight one. I requested a meeting with my son's pupil support teacher to discuss his underperformance in his exams relative to his ability. We have some concern that there may be signs of dispraxia and really just want to get a view as to whether thats a route worth persuing or whether the view is that he is lazy. So, not a situation where we are seeking to place blame on anyone. I've now been waiting over 5 weeks, 2 emails, one cancelled meeting (by them) 2 phones from me and I still don't have an appointment. I appreciate that they are busy, but we are told that Pupil Support should be our first port of call. Then it will be the October holidays and before we know it, it will be time for prelims and I don't expect to be any further forward.

Quote from my son "Mum, I really don't know why you are bothering, nothing will be done and the teachers simply don't care" Given the evidence, I really can't bring myself to contradict him.

They do have a lovely document setting out the partnership that they have/want with parents. I could go through it and highlight all the bits that they are not meeting but I'd soon run out of ink.

Oh dear wax that makes me feel guilty and it can't possibly be me as I am not at work at the moment! I am a Guidance teacher and thus first port of call. From personal experience it wouldn't be lack of caring but being spread much too thinly and the squeaking gate getting the oil. I do get frustrated at that to be honest. Supportive parents wanting a little bit of time get pushed to the back burner as the stuff we are asked to deal with on a daily basis is time critical and our time is finite.
No one wins

Honestly , yes , things are that bad.

I've worked as a teaching assistant for many years and have seen massive changes that simply make teaching more difficult. The amazing teachers I've worked with have to have extreme amounts of patience - not only with the kids but also with the new demands that are laid out almost weekly , I don't know how they cope and I admire them greatly.

I also went into my Ta work thinking of teaching myself , I've had opportunities for school direct training etc and keep saying no because I see what teachers have to suffer , it's ridiculous.

I'm thinking of leaving support work because I have no career progression that interests me right now. HLTA work will just mean that I am treated like a low paid supply teacher and remaining as I am means I have to pick up the slack because teachers are only human and cannot meet all of the demands that they face.

It all makes me very cross as overall, I do love my job , but I went into it so full of hope and many years later I'm jaded and exhausted.

I do appreciate that they are busy and I start to feel quite angry that I am made to feel that I am harrasing them now, but if they don't phone me back and I still want the appointment then I have no option to call them again. Office staff getting quite arsey doesn't help.

I have a meeting with education services later about multiple other issues related to my older son. It's really depressing and I haven't ruled out gong to my MP/the press about part of them. It's also not about a witch hunt in relation to individual members of staff, it's about highlighting the lack of systems and controls, care and attention etc. If that is due to lack of staffing then that needs to be addressed and me raising these issues is a positive thing for the school.

I agree wax. Sometimes parents raising these issues is the only way we get any improvement

For the forty two years of my lifetime I have literally been hearing teaching is getting worse, pressures are unbearable. The teachers at our school are competent, relaxed and professional and with nearly nine weeks off over the summer, well rested. I can not think of a better job if you are looking for true life work balance. My dh and I work 90 hours a week and work life balance is non existent.

I am sure others will not agree with me, and I am sure there are times when it is unbearable but every job has its negatives.

I have a friend who's just started his probation year - 26 (I think) P1s and no TA!

So many nqts end up with no ta , slt think this is okay as some nqts are afraid to speak up for fear of seeming incapable , meaning that they don't have to deal with it.

What is SfL please? Been out of teaching for about ten years now so not up to date with some of these terms!

Suppor for Learning Em. That's what it would stand for in my school anyway

Yes, littlebird, it's easy to dwell on the negatives, which most jobs have. Teachers have a salary at the end of the month regardless, a pension and long holidays (though I don't know of any Scottish schools which have nine weeks of summer holidays). We are often defensive because everyone has an opinion, often based on their own out-of-date experiences of school.
There are many good teachers, but some poor appointments at every level including senior management and Guidance make life harder for the rest.
I won't bore you with all the issues, but this is my experience too: even lovely, polite, well brought up pupils are less likely to bring equipment and homework rates in my school, particularly among seniors, are extremely bad. A lot of pupils effectively take no responsibility for themselves and their own education, and this does not help standards.

wax the county I am in is stunningly bad for this sort of thing.
Parents either give up or leave, ime.

I'm talking about a school that is consistently top 5/10 in the country for academic success.

Still no phone call or meeting arranged. meeting with ed dept re my stage 2 complaint went fine, it was info gathering really. I really don't expect that my complaint will be upheld or that anything meaningful will happen. But I have done my best.

Now I have the choice of emailing or phoning to chase my meeting re DS2 again. I suppose if I mail I have an evidence trail, but if I phone then I know I delivered my message - decisions decisions....

We are finding that children nowadays have no idea of how to behave in public, I took mine out in town for a visit and was mortified at their behaviour - rushing around touching things, calling out and interrupting the woman, generally showing no interest. Sadly that seems to be the norm with kids in our school recently.

Coupled with the most entitled parents I can imagine, where everything is anyone else's fault but their own and that sums up why morale at our school is zero. We have a HT who rushes around giggling like a schoolgirl and thinks everything is marvellous as she never comes into our classes to find out that it's actually shit.