If you said The Lord's Prayer at school in the '70s...

[AgentProvocateur]

Apart from weddings and funerals, I am not a churchgoer, but I was at a service today and the Lord's Prayer was said. Now, I've not said it since primary school, but it came flooding back, except I said "Forgive us our debts" as the rest of the congregation said "Forgive us our trespasses". Has it changed over the years, or was my primary school out of line with everyone else?

[Bunbaker]

Just asked OH, who was born in 1952, and he has never heard of debts either. It has a completely different meaning to trespasses.

[Redcrayons]

I've never heard debtors before. We used to say trespasses.
It still amazes me that even tho I left school many many years ago and am not religious, that I could still give a word perfect Lords Prayer.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I learnt debts/debtors - Scottish non-denominational primary school, late 80s.

I am so glad for this thread - I was so so certain it was debts/debtors but no one ever believed me

[VenusVanDamme]

I went to a baptist church growing up and we never said the Lord's Prayer so I was the only one in my P6 class who looked confused as the teacher made us say it every morning!! Was definitely debts/debtors she taught us (Glasgow 90s).

However, went to chapel with DH for a funeral and he thought it was hilarious that I said that rather than trespasses and I added an extra line at the end

[AgentProvocateur]

Thanks, everyone. To clarify, I was at a west of Scotland non-denominational school. I think we said the LP once a year if that!

Today's service was Church of Scotland (Glasgow).
I'd never heard the Trespassers version until today.

[HirplesWithHaggis]

When I saw the thread title, I knew it would be this! I was CoS, nondom schools, and it was debts. But I've heard "trespasses" too, didn't realise it was RC.

(It doesn't mean "debts" in a financial sense, more a social/spiritual one.)

[Bunbaker]

I have attended services in several churches around England over the last 30 or so years and debts has never been used in the lord's prayer.

It isn't in this

However, according to this the traditional version uses trespasses. The modern version uses sins, but the king James and Matthew gospel versions uses debts.

Well, I have learned something new.

Thank you for raising this. It has been very interesting. Incidentally, we sing the lord's prayer at our church.

[mawbroon]

I went to Sunday school and we said one version there, but if we said it anywhere else, like school, or in another church, it was the other version.

But I can't remember which was which!

[LittleCandle]

Debts is very Scottish - COS and former Congregational churches for me. RC and COE use trespasses - having worked across many denominations, I have come across them all. The RC church also adds in a bit where the priest asks for blessings for the local bishop and the Pope. Some churches still use the traditional version with 'thy' and some have updated it to 'your', which does freak me out. Thy is hardly a difficult word, so why dumb it down? But what do I know?

[derxa]

60's/70's Scottish (West) school child here. Definitely debts
Trespasses in CofE 'High' Church where I worshipped in SE England.
And I think we said sins at a Scottish funeral I went to last week. I said 'trespasses'

[Whatevva]

I have heard debts in Scottish churches before.

I think there were also a few 'updates' around before the CofE revised their prayer book and changed to 'your' and 'sins' etc (not that any CofE churches I go to use it).

I think that what was non denominational was probably dependent on the headmasters ideas of what non denominational was. I am sure my non denominational primary had rather Methodist leanings and we probably had more prayers etc than the local church school! Most seemed to be based on our elderly headteacher's schooling. (The infant assembly used songs which I am sure were Victorian, like the scary reception teacher taking it!)

We used to sing a 'dixology' (????) after the Lord's Prayer which was a two liner - one I remember was 'Thou hast search-ed me and know me. Wither shall I go then for Thy Presence (presents ) which always sounded a bit pervy to me, even as an innocent 7 yr old. Inspired by Princess Anne's wedding, he also introduced 'God be in my head'.

We also had a quick chant of grace, before sitting for lunch.

[prettybird]

I remember saying "trespasses" (primary school in the 70s/early 70s ).

But I might be confusing it with the few times I went to church before my parents admitted to themselves they were being hypocritical we went to the local episcopal church, which, being "higher" than Church of Scotland, might have used the same prayer book as Church of England.

Only went to church once a term with the school and can't remember saying the Lords Prayer in school. But there again, I might have expunged it from my memory

An additional question is - what words did you sing to "Stille Nacht"? It's my favourite Christmas carol/hymn - but I much prefer the Scottish translation.

[Olddear]

We say debts/debtors (c of s) but any time I've been in RC church, they say trespasses.

[Whatevva]

prettybird There is a lovely arrangement by Sir Malcom Sargent that uses a different translation of Stille Nacht.

(hard to find one that is not over slushified - it is lovely in rl)

[prettybird]

I deliberately didn't say which translation I like - but it doesn't start "Silent Night"

I always sing along with the "correct" words if a choir sings "Silent Night" - but, there again, I only know the words of the version I've sing since primary school [santa]

[EvansOvalPiesYumYum]

Grew up in Wales attending Catholic church, it used to be 'trespasses' then got changed to 'sins', for some reason, as obviously some of us were too stupid to understand what a trespass might be.

Never heard of the 'debt' before, but haven't lived in Scotland, that very foreign land

[FetaComplete]

Debts and debtors here

I always prefer it and the English version makes everyone hiss with treSpaSSeS againSt uS..

[babyboomersrock]

We used to sing a 'dixology' (????) after the Lord's Prayer

Oh I remember that too. Think it's "doxology"?

[originalmavis]

Our Scottish school was debtors, church (episcopalian) was trespassers.

[babyboomersrock]

what words did you sing to "Stille Nacht"? It's my favourite Christmas carol/hymn - but I much prefer the Scottish translation

I like "Still the Night, Holy the Night" - is that the one you mean?

[babyboomersrock]

This one...

[inmyheadimthequeen]

Trespasses here too but I thought the thread was going to say something different - I stopped attending church regularly many years ago but recall the prayer ending at 'deliver us from evil, Amen'. However it apparently goes on to say, 'for thine is the power, the glory.....' (not exactly sure of words) and it throws me whenever it comes up and that bit is included. has it always been there or did I really learn a different version? Sorry if that's hijacking.

[wickedlazy]

Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thyne is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever, amen.

That's how we always said it? (Various protestant denominations).

[wigglybeezer]

It was always debtors in School/church (of scotland) for me but trespassers when attending C of E services with my Granny in England. Don't forget all the trouble we had when King Charles tried to impose the English Book of common prayer on us!

Don't think my children could recite the Lord's Prayer if you paid them, we said it everyday at the end of the school day when I had a rather holy teacher in P7.