Do SAHMs past toddler years cause gender inequality?

[ladykale]

From reading so many MN threads I can't help but observe that

1. SAHM with husbands with a "big job" do 100% of housework, childcare and life admin which means that their children (including boys) see that as the norm and then go forward to model that. To have purpose those SAHMs often do everything for their teen children & often produce lazier / less independent teens.

1. Women with kids can't compete effectively with the male husbands/partners of these SAHMs in the workplace as they are focusing 100% on work and not doing any childcare, looking after sick children or even juggling household stuff.

No judgment on SAHMs of older children, but it does feel like it perpetuates gender inequality that we see played out in thread after thread with lazy male partners who have been raised by someone yet don't have basic life skills like cleaning & cooking!

So what if he does though? I mean, surely these men don't meet and marry a career woman without any discussion about how things will be at home. This sort of thing would surely be talked about before they got married.

Oh FTFO. Why is it always the woman that’s to blame?

People have been maliciously or mischievously trying to stir up conflict between SAHMs and mums with careers for as long as I can remember. We're all just women trying to make the decisions that work best for us and our families. FWIW, we had a near-complete role reversal for several years with my DH staying at home to look after the family because my job was much more highly paid (although not necessarily any more important in its own right) than his had been.

Absolute rot!

I was a SAHM until DS was 12 years old. We moved when I had DS, the job I did involved late night meetings and DH earned enough for me to take a few years off. Those 'few years' turned to 12 years during which time my mum developed Alzheimer's and I started a small business (yes, to fit around DS and DM).

DH, because he knew how much I valued my own time, would regularly book me a weekend away in a hotel giving me time to see something at a West End theatre or do some trade shows for my business. That happened from DS being 6 months old. During those weekends DH was on his own. He, like me, figured out what to do with a child who was sick or teething or was having a tantrum. Because, like me, he's an intelligent human being. I didn't get an instruction manual, neither did he.

He also took DS away for a week to visit relations on the other side of the country on more than one occasion. Giving me the chance to do stuff around the house that I'd been putting on hold and to get out to see friends without the 'got to keep a clear head because of baby'.

I've rarely done ironing in this house for three years. DH took it over when he was made redundant, then mum became ill and I was to and fro hospitals. He's never handed it back as he finds it therapeutic apparently (very odd - I hate the job). I'm in charge of cooking as he hates that job. But I'll iron and he'll cook if need be - stuff doesn't sit around un-ironed and no-one starves if the other person isn't there!

He is more than capable of cleaning the house (and does) just as I'm more than capable of fixing stuff and do (because my dad taught me how to do DIY).

The point is we're a team. If something needs washing the person nearest will wash it. If DS's nappy needed changing when he was a baby, the person nearest would change it.

So DS has seen that sometimes jobs in the home are done by one person who either enjoys it, is good at it or hates it the least. Sometimes the jobs are shared on a 'whoever gets there first' basis. He finds it weird when friends say 'dad doesn't know how to use the washing machine or doesn't mop the kitchen floor. He also finds it equally weird that friends mums can't put up a shelf though. If you asked him what was a SAHM/D's job and what was the working person's job I don't think he'd understand what you mean - it's a house with people in it that need looking after so it's everyone's job to chip in.

So SAHP aren't to blame here. It's people not prepared to pull their weight regardless of working status or gender.

@Delectable it's a problem if he does cs that's what creates gender inequality!

There was an article published today about how even women who are breadwinners still end up doing much more housework, I'm asking if seeing mum doing most of it is what makes it become ingrained for the future generations of couples.

So many defensive comments when it's a genuine Q I'm wondering. No judgment on what people choose to do, but I wonder if boys who have SAHMs into their teens tend to become the feckless, lazy partners expecting the woman to do everything that so many complain about on here!

Wrong person - that was in response to @Dacadactyl

Its the devaluation of caring roles /roles which don’t attract lots of money which cause gender equality.

There is nothing wrong with women wanting to look after their children rather than going out to paid work, but so long as society ranks financial worth as being the most important quality then women who do caring roles will be looked down on.

Surely the answer is to encourage more men to be sahf 🤷🏻

Yep. It's remarkable how many of these 'big jobs' that are incompatible with pulling your weight in raising a family/having a functional family life are held by men, isn't it?

To have purpose those SAHMs often do everything for their teen children & often produce lazier / less independent teens

This is absolute nonsense. I didn't read any further 😂

I think you’re getting a lot of unfair cop here OP.

FWIW I think a lot of women do opt-out of work - because of the societal constructs in which men are generally more likely to progress professionally, and the fact that men don’t think that it’s on them to opt-out or even step-back during the child-rearing years - and then the cycle goes on and on. Men don’t think it’s on them. Women feel it is on them. It being “the primary care giver”.

It’s not women’s fault, for sure. But I know many who have now got themselves in a rut because they’ve been out of the workplace for so long, it’s very difficult to go back, so they over-compensate by doing so much for their DH and DC in order to remain “needed”. If that’s been your primary role for the last 10+ years and you have very few other options, it must be daunting to see your criticality dwindle at home on top of the fact that it’s already dwindled in the workplace too.

Of course that’s not ALL women or even all SAHMs, but I do agree that it does perpetuate the cycle. After all, in many cases (again not all), our own family set-up is often the blueprint for our own later set-up.

From experience, I can confirm that life is easier when one parent stays home. Day to day running around is easier. School holidays are easier, illness can be dealt with more easily. General household logistics are easier. But it isn’t always better emotionally or psychologically on a long-term basis as the roles are then engrained and difficult to strike any balance professionally or financially.

But I’ll reiterate that this is not women’s fault. We need more men to step up at home and step back at work. It will have the double whammy of creating space for females in the workplace AND setting a more balanced example for future generations.

At work recently we were reviewing exit interview feedback. The massive % of women leaving due to work life balance was astounding compared to the minuscule % of men citing the same reason. Like WTAF? And we are talking a sample size of 20,000 ex-employees globally.

Ridiculous statement.

My husband is the SAHD. What us that teaching?

How many women bought into the lie that they could have it all, and have ended up burnt out, depressed, and exhausted by trying to do it all? I couldn't care less what people had to say about the choices that I made, when it came to certain things. Society was not helping me when I was on my knees with exhaustion.

Both myself and DH had mothers who worked fulltime outside the home so that was all we both knew growing up and I'm currently a sahm.

So the article you read was about working Mums who still do all of the housework, but it’s SAHM’s who are setting a bad example for their sons?

I’d say seeing their Mum work full time and do all the housework is likely the poorer example…

I don't feel that I experience gender inequality in my day to day life, so it's not an issue I'm concerned about tbh.

I'm not defensive, but I don't see why it's an issue how other people set their families up.

My DH earns the most money of the 2 of us and works FT to my PT. He does some housework. When I was a SAHM, he did no housework. That worked for us. His mum was a SAHM too but he's always pulled his weight with housework when I've expected him too (such as when I started working).

My boys have a SAHM ish.... as do my girls... I work part time, while filling the rest of my time with volunteering as I am blessed not to need to work full time from a financial point of view.

but no, they are not feckless, lazy children who expect me to do everything....

Because our role as parents is to bring them up to be functioning members of society who contribute positively to their communities. To teach them to be adults who make a positive difference. Because we teach them about value and responsibility and being part of a team. We teach them what being a partnership is about - supporting one another and making decisions together for the benefit of all of us. We teach them that gender inequality is not something to just accept - but something to challenge in all it's glory. We teach them that they all have a part to play - according to their strengths and weaknesses and their likes and dislikes. Not according to their genitals.

Children learn what they are taught and shown - and stereotyping anyone is not helpful, but lazy thinking......

Although I would say I might feel differently if id wanted/worked hard for a big career. But then I'd have made sure DH was on board with that and that we had a suitable plan between us for childcare (nursey, childminder or nanny would NOT have been an option) before marrying him.

My teen DS is not a feckless lazy person who expects I do everything for him because I'm a Sahm/ housewife , he knows how to prepare food , he knows how to clean and tidy up after himself and can do some basic diy which he's picked up from his dad so he's certainly going to be capable when he leaves home to do his share

@YetMoreNewBeginnings completely agree, but what the article was suggesting is that men basically haven't moved away from a time that women were mostly at home and men mainly breadwinners, so while women have moved to the workplace, the mindset hasn't caught up.

Hence why I'm wondering if the fact that many people still maintain the historical set up of women at home & man at work means that it will take longer for mindsets to change or "catch up".

i think your question, well not the question, but the implication behind it, is part of the problem.

The SAHMs aren’t the issue.

The men and women who see housework as solely the woman’s job are the problem.

Regardless her employment status generally, but actually it’s more problematic when they’ve changed the historical set up on the one hand, but not with the balancing.

It’s not a bad thing to teach children that home set ups can be different depending on careers, incomes, family situations and even wishes. It’s only a bad thing to teach them that the housework is her job regardless of employment.

Diverting the focus to making it SAHM’s fault is just another way to kick women because it doesn’t actually address the situation of when women do it all and work.

I hate this men doing a big job so that they can't do anything at home bullshite.

I am single parent. Two ND kids and a "big" job. I do all of it out of necessity
I don't want a medal at all - id rather have a partner to share it with it but it's not so hard you need an entire person at home doing the other stuff.

That would be like me hiring a PA / housekeeper/ cleaner/ babysitter etc.

1 . Bullshit, I don't know 1 Sahm who does 100 % of everything for the man with the big job , he still does some things in the house just different to what the sahm does . I have a very capable teenage son who can cook , clean ,tidy and do some diy which he has learned from us as his parents . He is absolutely not lazy nor less independent than a teenager who's mother is out at work so this is very insulting to suggest that's what a sahm raises so they have purpose.

1. How many men actually have a sahm or housewife anymore so they are not juggling anything, it's not really the norm anymore is it that there is woman at home doing everything for everyone .Most men now have a partner who is working also either full time or part time around his job so he is doing childcare , chores .

Basically I think how well someone does in their Big Job man or woman comes down to how much support they have at home for their family from either a partner or parents who help out a lot and how driven they are to succeed and make it work. Plenty of posters on here are women with big salaries and they have worked hard and got there through determination same as some men who have done the same .

I'm not the smartest, but dh and I are still smart enough to still make sure that the kids are frequently reminded that our set up doesn't work for everyone, and that for us it works because of who we are as people. We make sure to reminded them that neither of us "takes the piss" (put in kid-friendly language), that you live together, you work together to tidy, clean, and keep a good home. That everyone has strengths and weaknesses, and what works for one family won't necessarily work for another and that's totally normal.

We never argue about chores, because when he is home after time abroad he is a normal, intelligent adult who can see the dishwasher needs loading and turning on, or that food needs cooking/stirring, the cat needs feeding, bills need paying, etc etc etc, and he doesn't need the "female of the house" to tell him what needs doing. The kids all help chip in to house work. We all chip in to prep food, load the dishwasher etc.

Well yes, that's probably all true but I WANTED to be a SAHM. I was one for 7 years and now I'm working. Yes my husband had a big job, yes my children saw me doing most of the house work but c'est la vie. It's just how it was. My DH has always been more driven (and capable) than me career wise. I've never had any interest in jobs unfortunately but very much wanted to care for the children while they were little. This arrangement suited us and I was happy. I don't see why it has to be a negative thing. I know LOADS of men and women whose mums were SAHMs and they're all able to see that women can have great careers. People can see beyond their own family set up.