NHS pension disappointment.

[Stillearninglife]

After 33 years in the NHS I have been battling with pensions as they “lost” years and years of my pension due to “clerical errors “.
Now I have a prediction which I intend on taking at 55.

Seemingly one of the best pensions around, reading of other people’s pensions, it is utterly crap.

33 years with a lump sum of less than £80k then monthly payments of less than £800 per month is so low. All those years at B7 diligently paying in thinking I will be ok financially and it’s just dire.

I left the NHS due to conditions and pay some time ago (2 years ago) so nothing is going into the pot, so I’m taking it at 55 next year.

Anyone had similar experience with NHS pension?

Sorry u still have another 12 years potentially before the gov see u ready to take it, sorry I know 33 years is good service but it could be more, and that reflects in ur quota for age 55. I honestly think it’s quite appropriate. Ur taking a healthy lump sum.
btw I’m not saying it’s great I’m just saying it sounds right, nhs pensions r not all that now.

@crazeekat she is eligible to claim her 95 pension in full at 60, so only five years early. The scheme rules determine the normal pension age of each scheme. At the moment anyone can claim or access any type of pension at 55 (some at 50 depending on scheme rules), but this will be rising to 57 in 2028.

it is far from clear if the figures mentioned by OP are correct. It looks like her monthly payment is too low and the lump sum too high even taking into account taking her pension early and opting for the maximum lump sum.

Even the latest NHS pension scheme 2015, is still one of the best pension schemes you can get. In some ways it is better than the 95 scheme due to the lower accrual rate, but you have to work until state pension age to be able to claim without reduction, so a bit swings and roundabouts.

I genuinely can’t get over the idea that people think they should be able to retire at 55. I’m in my 40s and won’t be able to retire until I’m 70+ probably, but those of us still working should pay for people to be retired for 25 years or so?

Dodgethis
A lot of people retire early, but go on to get another job.
They won’t be claiming their state pension until normal age

@Dodgethis I think it’s more the case that pension schemes allow you to retire at a certain age. In the case of the 95 scheme, if you didn’t take your pension at age 60 you loose out if you don’t take it at the normal retirement age, as there is no late payment factor. Burnout and ill health are reasons as to why people have to leave work early and in the near future there will be a whole host of public sector employees looking to take their pensions early having been made redundant. In OP’s case, she is working but outside the NHS and is eligible to put her NHS pension into payment early (with reduction) as that is what the scheme allows (the government also allows anyone to access their pensions from age 55, although that will be increasing to 57 in 2028). I guess folks could leave their pensions until later and claim benefits as an alternative and then receive their full pension at a later stage.

Everyone in the NHS has now moved to the 2015 scheme with a normal retirement age linked to their state pension age. So although they can claim the 95 at 60, any pension accrued in 2015 will be reduced if claiming it early.

There are plenty of people who claim their pension and continue to work and due to tax thresholds remaining static lots of people in receipt of pensions (fully retired or working) who are tax payers and still paying into the system.

Was actually round about then, so you may be right: very difficult getting a straight answer with actual figures but I'm incentivised now to find paperwork and address it properly!

@Witknit You should have annual pension statements.

The starting point is to confirm the dates in both schemes.

Then for 1995/2008 check you reckonable service is accurate. It is adjusted for unpaid leave and part time.

This will give you a good baseline.

It may take time but it’s worth it.

@Harassedevictee totally agree. It’s very easy not keep an eye on things on an annual basis and certainly not helped when staff have issues with access to their TRS. But it is far easier to pick up on things and get any issues resolved if things are checked through on an annual basis.

Lots of people drift into retirement without giving things a great deal of thought in the preceding years. That makes sorting out errors from years ago more challenging especially when employers have changed. It also doesn’t put people in a good postion for retirement planning. In my day trusts and organisations didn’t offer pension workshops until people were within 5-10 years of retirement i.e. normal scheme pension age, which excluded those who wanted to leave early or consider winding down early. Imo they should be offered to every one in the pension schemes at least every 5 years. I had to push to get on one early and it was startling as to how many people within a couple of years of retirement had so little knowledge about what they had been putting their monies into for decades.

Those in the NHS special classes didn't thinkthey should be able to retire at 55 -they were able to retire at 55 and we are seeing the tail end of this now, the 1995 section closed to new members in 2008 so some if they retain their SC status will be able to take their 1995 section pension at 55.

There is absolutely no way this right can be removed legally -look at the McCloud judgement and the shitshow of reversing the changes made then that NHS pensions are going through now.

The context for this in nursing- the job back then was physically very very tough.
Almost all jobs remained ward based as specialist roles had not been developed as they are now.
There was little to no health and safety and at the time patients were nursed in bed even after minor ops -of course we realised its not good and patients should be up and about as early as possible to prevent thrombus and pneumonia.
When I started nursing we were required to lift and transfer all patients up the bed and out of bed-yes 2 -7.5 stone nurses would physically lift heavy men!
Back and joint injuries were rife and it was therefore acknowledged that the job was damaging and so not expected to work after 55
I remember most of my older colleagues once they reached 50ish simply unable to continue , many off sick and medically pensioned off.
As a student I visited 2 of my colleagues who were in hospital on traction for disc prolapse , neither could carry on their training.
After a flurry of high profile court cases in the late 80s where nurses sued as they were left wheelchair bound, H&S was introduced, no lifting, slide sheets, hoists etc

So that's the context
Sadly if Op had clung on for a couple more years she would be able to retire at 55

@Dodgethis when I started working both my Civil Service and State Pension age were 60. As I worked on State Pensions we all knew in the 1980s women our age would have to wait to 65 to get state pension.

Both my parents retired mid 50s. The difference is my Dad started work at 15, my sister at 16. These days a lot (not all) don’t start work until 21/22 after Uni.

If you paid into a private pension you are not sponging off others.

The OP would have been paying 13.6% of their gross salary for that pension.

Back problems are still a huge issue. While there may be more health and safety rules I don't think they can always be adhered to due to understaffing and some people are very obese nowadays.

@dodgethis people can take private pensions from the age of 55 (rising to 57 in 2028) but won't be able to claim their state pension for a few more years.

I'm in my late 30s and will be able to take one of my private pensions at age 55 but can't claim my state one until 67.

I'm on track to retire at 55 though through careful financial planning - the younger lot won't be paying for it

Fools game to deliberately not follow guidelines or use equipment correctly
You will injure yourself and cause harm to patients and end up in a disciplinary
Any type of hands on job comes with risks-people are also encouraged to report injuries, RIDDOR etc whereas it was seen as part and parcel of the job in the past.
Datix all the way, report unsafe staffing, document inability to meet care needs due to staffing levels.

Due you think reporting unsafe staffing is going to mean there are safe levels?

Lol no!
But they won't be pinning it on me !

Example
Larger patient requires 4-6 staff to move -escalate and inform that you cannot move the patient until extra help is available.
Unless it's a life/ death type scenario you don't move the patient and put yourselves and them at risk.
Then Datix

The NHS pension is funded by taxpayers as well as members of the scheme

Yes but they are taxpayers too!

I think the point is that the tax payer cannot afford to fund the lifestyle of someone who wants to retire at 55.

Actually it returns a surplus to the taxpayer.

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2023-09/NHS%20Pensions%20Annual%20Report%20and%20Accounts%202022-2023.pdf

Well I’ve retired at 55 because the scheme I’m in allows it, I have budgeted so I can afford to live on the pension I draw. I’m proud of the fact I worked hard and paid in . I really don’t think I’m being supported

@DeskJotter other than those who have SCS (or MHO status) or are medically retired, everyone else who takes their pension early has it reduced due it being paid for longer. NPA of 95 scheme is 60 and 2008 is 65. There is little overall difference in how much is paid out in the recipients lifetime if they take it early or at the NPA of the scheme. Those who take pension at NPA of the scheme may well cost a small amount more if they live well into their 80s. SCS has been explained elsewhere in the thread, but a lot who are still eligible for SCS (there are a number of eligibility criteria) could possibly end up medically retired anyway. However, SCS was phased out 2 decades ago to new members of the pension scheme.

As things stand, the old pension schemes allowing retirement before full state pension age without reduction have been phased out with the introduction of the 2015 scheme. So moving forward it will be whatever the state pension age is before NHS staff will be able to put their pension into full payment. It will be reduced if they claim it early.

I think it is worth reiterating that NHS scheme members pay into their pension scheme, with the majority of staff paying in 8.3 to 12.5% of their gross pay depending on their earnings. In previous years the rates of contributions have been slightly higher.

You don't seem to understand -you have to have Special Class status to retire on a full pension i.e be part of the 1995 section.
It's not a "aaaaah think I will go early" , it's what those in that section are entitled to do!!

What do you propose -making us all come back until 67 😂( I work but in a different NHS job anyway)

I think you’ll find those who work in the nhs pay into the scheme and also pay tax . Band7 like the original poster will be paying at the higher rate too ( definitely if working in Scotland) . The scheme is a bit like a Ponzi scheme those working today are paying the current pensioners pensions while hoping there will be enough people still working in the future to fund their pensions
Back to the original poster - and the query
Band 7 with 33 years service pension sounds about right in my humble experience .
And yes special classes can retire at 55 with no reduction on pension if they haven’t broken service. Very few SC members left now though .
Finally - posters who think the pension is so fabulous - maybe you should have considered a career in the NHS ? There was a period when I had no wage rise for 7 years . I would have been earning 3 or 4 times my salary if I had gone over to the private sector . We choose to stay . All NHS staff deserve their modest pensions in my opinion .