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Retirement

Planning your retirement? Join our Retirement forum for advice and help from other Mumsnetters.

How are you spending your retirement funds ?

74 replies

hattie43 · 13/03/2024 18:50

My pension is in a SIPP and although I could retire I'm still working and will do so until I stop enjoying it . A post on another thread got me thinking , the poster was late 50's I think and was saying they are spending a lot of their fund now to travel / hobbies / entertainment whilst they are healthy and mobile and if they only have enough money to watch telly in their 80's so be it .

I've always thought my funds would be used evenly no matter my age but I can see the logic of spending and enjoying whilst physically well to do so .

On the other hand what if you need more for care in later years .

How do others approach this .

OP posts:
olderbutwiser · 28/04/2024 18:17

RaraRachael · 28/04/2024 16:58

No idea what deprivation of assets means but nobody can stop you spending your own money.

Yes they can. If you give your money away or spend it to avoid paying for foreseeable care needs and the state has to pick up your care costs then that is deprivation of assets and the state can demand repayment of the money.

Holypricks · 28/04/2024 19:24

olderbutwiser · 28/04/2024 18:17

Yes they can. If you give your money away or spend it to avoid paying for foreseeable care needs and the state has to pick up your care costs then that is deprivation of assets and the state can demand repayment of the money.

Avoid being the key here. They can’t stop you spending your money

Bignanna · 28/04/2024 20:30

Holypricks · 28/04/2024 19:24

Avoid being the key here. They can’t stop you spending your money

No, but they regard you as still having that money and will claw it back! Look up deprivation of assets!

Bignanna · 28/04/2024 20:32

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 15/04/2024 20:21

Electricity,
Then gas,
If there's anything over we buy some food.

I was beginning to think everyone on here was loaded!

Dartwarbler · 28/04/2024 20:42

Bignanna · 28/04/2024 16:41

Isn’t that regarded as deprivation of assets in some circumstances?

It depends.

spending your INCOME on stuff you do in your retirement is entirely up to you. Frazzle it on gambling, drinking and fast cars if you like. It is indeed your money .

But when you start to talk about non income assets that it gets more dodgy. Savings, investments, chatels, pension pots, property. And what is being looked at is deliberate changes in behaviour to avoid care cost. They have to show there was an element of deliberation to avoid care fees

Here is a quote from care uk help page - so here it talks about gambling (🤣I’m not a gambler, just an example) , but I think they’d struggle if you’d always gambled and weren’t doing so recklessly. I think they’d also be hard pushed to reclaim gambling losses anyway!


Deprivation of assets means you’ve deliberately tried to get rid of your assets to avoid charges or reduce the amount you would have to pay for your care. There are various ways you might do this, including:

  • making a lump-sum payment to someone else, possibly as a gift
  • extravagant spending that is out of character
  • extravagant living, such as gambling
  • transferring the title deeds of your property to someone else
  • putting your assets into a trust that can’t be revoked
  • buying an investment bond with life insurance
  • buying expensive items so they would be disregarded as personal possessions
  • selling an asset for less than its true value
  • giving away or selling the right to an income from a workplace pension.

There could be valid reasons for doing any of these things. The council must consider the timing and motivation of your actions. If they decide that you knew you would need care, and you were trying to avoid paying towards it, they may see this as deprivation of assets.”

and “When they carry out the financial assessment, the council will ask about things you used to own, as well as what you currently own. There’s no time limit on how far back the council can look at your financial affairs to see if there has been deprivation of assets. You may have to provide evidence to prove to the council that you no longer have an asset.
There are many reasons why you might have given something away. The council must consider each case individually. They’ll look at:

  • why and when you disposed of your assets
  • whether you could have known that you would need care and support at the time
  • whether you expected that you'd have to pay towards your care costs
  • whether avoiding care costs was a significant motivation for disposing of your assets.

If the council decide you’ve deliberately deprived yourself of an asset to avoid paying care costs, they could treat you as if you still had it. They may include its full value in your financial assessment and charge you accordingly. This is called notional capital or notional income.
If you no longer have the asset, you could find that you’re expected to pay more towards your care than you can afford.
If you transferred the asset to someone else to avoid the charge, that person may be responsible for paying the council. They may have to pay the difference between what the council would have charged if you still had the asset and what they did charge.”

Bignanna · 28/04/2024 20:48

Dartwarbler · 28/04/2024 20:42

It depends.

spending your INCOME on stuff you do in your retirement is entirely up to you. Frazzle it on gambling, drinking and fast cars if you like. It is indeed your money .

But when you start to talk about non income assets that it gets more dodgy. Savings, investments, chatels, pension pots, property. And what is being looked at is deliberate changes in behaviour to avoid care cost. They have to show there was an element of deliberation to avoid care fees

Here is a quote from care uk help page - so here it talks about gambling (🤣I’m not a gambler, just an example) , but I think they’d struggle if you’d always gambled and weren’t doing so recklessly. I think they’d also be hard pushed to reclaim gambling losses anyway!


Deprivation of assets means you’ve deliberately tried to get rid of your assets to avoid charges or reduce the amount you would have to pay for your care. There are various ways you might do this, including:

  • making a lump-sum payment to someone else, possibly as a gift
  • extravagant spending that is out of character
  • extravagant living, such as gambling
  • transferring the title deeds of your property to someone else
  • putting your assets into a trust that can’t be revoked
  • buying an investment bond with life insurance
  • buying expensive items so they would be disregarded as personal possessions
  • selling an asset for less than its true value
  • giving away or selling the right to an income from a workplace pension.

There could be valid reasons for doing any of these things. The council must consider the timing and motivation of your actions. If they decide that you knew you would need care, and you were trying to avoid paying towards it, they may see this as deprivation of assets.”

and “When they carry out the financial assessment, the council will ask about things you used to own, as well as what you currently own. There’s no time limit on how far back the council can look at your financial affairs to see if there has been deprivation of assets. You may have to provide evidence to prove to the council that you no longer have an asset.
There are many reasons why you might have given something away. The council must consider each case individually. They’ll look at:

  • why and when you disposed of your assets
  • whether you could have known that you would need care and support at the time
  • whether you expected that you'd have to pay towards your care costs
  • whether avoiding care costs was a significant motivation for disposing of your assets.

If the council decide you’ve deliberately deprived yourself of an asset to avoid paying care costs, they could treat you as if you still had it. They may include its full value in your financial assessment and charge you accordingly. This is called notional capital or notional income.
If you no longer have the asset, you could find that you’re expected to pay more towards your care than you can afford.
If you transferred the asset to someone else to avoid the charge, that person may be responsible for paying the council. They may have to pay the difference between what the council would have charged if you still had the asset and what they did charge.”

Edited

Thanks for the info- scary! Bet many aren’t aware of this.

Holypricks · 28/04/2024 21:34

Bignanna · 28/04/2024 20:30

No, but they regard you as still having that money and will claw it back! Look up deprivation of assets!

I’m well aware, but living your life is not depravation of assets. You’re fear mongering.

Bignanna · 28/04/2024 22:08

Holypricks · 28/04/2024 21:34

I’m well aware, but living your life is not depravation of assets. You’re fear mongering.

Not at all! It’s something to bear in mind, and it’s clear some don’t know about this!

RaraRachael · 28/04/2024 22:14

I don't call having some nice holidays, an occasional new car and some home improvements avoiding anything.

I call it enjoying the fruits of 40 years hard work.

So are we supposed to sit at home doing nothing and spending nothing just in case we ever need to go into a care home?

Runnerinthenight · 29/04/2024 00:25

RaraRachael · 28/04/2024 22:14

I don't call having some nice holidays, an occasional new car and some home improvements avoiding anything.

I call it enjoying the fruits of 40 years hard work.

So are we supposed to sit at home doing nothing and spending nothing just in case we ever need to go into a care home?

Absolutely! There is no indication whatsoever currently that I might ever have to go into a care home! I will be clearing my debts, doing home improvements so as to future proof my home, and going on holidays, plus supporting my adult children. They can come after me for whatever they want! It's my money that I have contributed to for many years!

AyeupDuck · 29/04/2024 07:44

@Dartwarbler thank you for such an insightful post, it was very well written and informative.

I am also a member of U3a, I absolutely love it. It is such a reasonable cost, I go along to three things, it means one class a week as each one is every other week plus one meet up a month. I have just signed up for one more plus they have started a weekly casual meet up in a local cafe.

NewName24 · 29/04/2024 16:54

RaraRachael · 28/04/2024 22:14

I don't call having some nice holidays, an occasional new car and some home improvements avoiding anything.

I call it enjoying the fruits of 40 years hard work.

So are we supposed to sit at home doing nothing and spending nothing just in case we ever need to go into a care home?

Nobody is suggesting that. Confused

Elsewhere123 · 29/04/2024 17:14

Research immediate needs annuity if you have a direct contribution pension pot. If/ when you need care it is a very tax efficient way to use some of your pot.

ArcticBells · 29/04/2024 17:45

Overtheatlantic · 15/04/2024 20:47

Just wondering if anyone has a sibling doing a lot worse in life and with no prospects of retiring? How do you deal with managing your guilt about being able to retire whilst they continue to work themselves into an early grave? I’m in this situation and although nothing is guaranteed it seems unfair.

I'm in this situation and it's very difficult although not planning on retiring just yet myself.

Defiantlynot41 · 30/04/2024 09:13

I thought I had picked up the recommendation from this thread but scrolling back I can't see it - the book Die with zero: getting all you can from your money and your life by Bill Perkins has been thought provoking

I also like How to Make the Rest of your life the Best of your life by Art Linkletter. I was lucky enough to hear him speak on this subject in 2006 when he was 93 or so and an amazing speaker.

Finally, definitely recommend the Government Pensionwise service. I worked in financial services all my life and it still opened my eyes to options that have been beneficial

verdibird · 16/05/2024 23:13

Like @Defiantlynot41 I would also recommend Die with Zero. V. thought provoking book. I’ve realised it is good to plan your retirement, but not good to die with a load of money you never were able to use because of fear.

hattie43 · 11/07/2024 18:48

RaraRachael · 28/03/2024 07:29

Interesting that some people consider putting aside money for care costs
Everybody I know who's retired recently wants to spend as much of their money so it doesn't go on care.

I think when we hear care costs we think residential care but really it could be assistance / care within the home . You may no longer be able to do the garden , housework , cooking and need to get people in or you may need a carer to come in to help get you up in the mornings etc. , it may not just be the cost of residential care but paying others to keep home so you can stay there longer .

OP posts:
ChatteringBirdS0ng · 17/07/2024 12:48

This is our first year of retirement, mid 50s

So far we have spent money on;

We moved closer to older family & friends
Current property is located next to a bus stop
(biggest expenditure so far)
Plan is to rent current property out in the future to travel or sell & downsize

We have been on 3 ( 1 big & 2 small) holidays so far this year & expect to have more, as we enjoy travelling. We also wish to do this while we are relatively young & healthy.
We started travelling 10 years ago, before retirement

We have spent money on some old & some new hobbies

We have planned & budgeted for some home improvements this or next year

----

We already have a camper van, car, motorcycles, bicycles & we perform our own repairs & maintenance

Plus expenditure for daily living

--

We may do some part time work in the future

-----

Costs for care in the future ?

I want to do the living first !

ChatteringBirdS0ng · 17/07/2024 12:54

I know people in their 90s & late 80s who live in their own homes with help.
Only travel locally now

Although, I also know people that have sadly passed away too early in their 40s & 50s

Life is for living !

Dahliasrule · 17/07/2024 13:04

Retirement savings dwindling rapidly. Helped DC with deposits, and eldest GC with university fees. Hopefully, will have enough left to see us out. Do have a final salary pension though.

RaraRachael · 17/07/2024 13:45

Costs for care in the future ?

I want to do the living first !

This is how I view things too.

LittleLlama · 17/07/2024 14:57

Before we retired we spoke to my PIL who had retired some 30 years before us. My FIL had a notebook with income and expenses (over their whole life)….

When they retired they were very careful and were perhaps over cautious. They both were lucky to have had defined benefits pensions. Their savings have actually increased over the years and jumped dramatically when they downsized their home. Due to family help they have not needed carers or other support.

In terms of expenditure they certainly spent more in the first ten years. Partly because they had a larger home and then did renovations on their smaller house but also because they travelled more. They could have spent a lot more.

We have taken a fairly careful but less cautious approach. We have a yearly budget and manage accordingly. Some months we spend more some less. I would like to downsize in the next ten years and we have already started the process of decluttering. My husband has a defined contribution pension and that makes things more complicated, as we have not bought an annuity.

It is difficult to plan and although we recognise that we are likely to spend more in the first ten or so years than later on we have spread our costs fairly evenly.

ohtowinthelottery · 18/07/2024 08:33

Re the deprivation of assets, I was under the impression that they'd have to prove that you disposed of assets when you knew that care costs were foreseeable.
My DF and DM both lived until their late 80's, living in their own home until they died. DFIL lived to 93 in his own home with DMIL caring for him. DMIL is now 95 and still going strong in her own home.
We are both early 60s and fit and healthy. DH has retired. We intend to have quite a few holidays in the foreseeable future and will continue whilst funds (and health) allow.

I think the LA/NHS would be hard pressed to say that care home costs are currently something we should be planning for.

Ilovemyshed · 18/07/2024 08:43

It is a clear curve on spending, and well documented. Spending more at the start of retirement with travel, doing things to house, going out. Then as you get older and mobility decreases usually less, perhaps no car to run etc.

As you move into late stages, then increased costs for care are needed.

What I would say is future proof your home, or move house earlier than you think you need. Consider if you would put in lifts, stairlifts or hoists, and how they would be powered. Is there a bathroom and bedroom which would be accessible or could be made so? Could you manage the garden, is it warm enough and affordable. Declutter.
You need to do this in your 70s latest.

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