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Retirement

Planning your retirement? Join our Retirement forum for advice and help from other Mumsnetters.

Teachers - did you get your predicted pension

129 replies

BG2015 · 15/01/2023 12:29

I'm beginning to really think about retiring now after having breast cancer last year. I'm 54 and am now paying more towards my mortgage so I can retire at 56/57.

I regularly check my forecasted pension and lump sum on TPS but wonder how accurate it really is.

Can anyone say whether the (rubbish) calculators on there are any good.

I'm in the Final salary scheme and career average schemes so that complicates things further, plus theres the McCloud judgement to consider to. It's a minefield.

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 26/02/2023 16:46

In the Final Salary part of the pension, if your Normal Pension Age is 60, you get an automatic lump sum of 3x annual Final Salary pension when you retire. This does not reduce your yearly pension.

If you joined later and are in the Normal Pension Age 65 part, there is no automatic lump sum. You can have one if you want, but it DOES reduce your yearly pension.

General advice is that unless you have a specific thing you NEED a lump sum for (perhaps paying off mortgage) it’s best to have the yearly pension - that’s because the rate if exchange isn’t good - you lose £1 of yearly pension for £12 gained as lump sum. But most people will live far longer than 12 years so lose out. The yearly pension is also index linked for inflation which is really important across a long retirement.

Do remember your pension statement doesn’t show the impact of McCloud yet. If you were in before 2012 and still in 2015, the service between 2015 and 2022 will be able to be taken under Final Salary terms if you prefer, rather than as Career Average which the statement currently shows. It will probably be another year before the pension statement can show both options but you don’t need to decide until you’re retiring anyway.

UsingChangeofName · 26/02/2023 18:05

For those (which I suspect is the majority of us) who don't understand their pension well, I found an appointment with Wesleyan really helpful.
No charge.
No selling
Familiar with TPS and LGPS, incl the changes already referred to.

WombatChocolate · 26/02/2023 18:12

Agreed. Wesleyan can be really useful.

There is also a Facebook page called The Classroom in RearView devoted to pensions by a guy called Dave Fountain which is focused on Teacher Pensions. He sometimes posts on MN as DiddyDave. There are brilliant short videos explaining. Lots of it.

BG2015 · 26/02/2023 19:30

WombatChocolate · 26/02/2023 18:12

Agreed. Wesleyan can be really useful.

There is also a Facebook page called The Classroom in RearView devoted to pensions by a guy called Dave Fountain which is focused on Teacher Pensions. He sometimes posts on MN as DiddyDave. There are brilliant short videos explaining. Lots of it.

Dave Fountain has loads of brilliant videos on YouTube too.

OP posts:
BatsPigeonsRatsSquirrels · 26/02/2023 20:11

Thank you @WombatChocolate that's really helpful.
I have both types of pension, and NPA should be 60 as it was when I joined in the 90s anyway!
So the lump sum is 3x my salary in 2015? And if I went the other McCloud way, 3 x my 2022 salary? Is that 2014-15 or 2015-16? I ask as I've worked part time with different fte in different years!

BatsPigeonsRatsSquirrels · 26/02/2023 20:13

Sorry, 3x final salary pension
Can't see how it works when you've had significantly different annual salaries

WombatChocolate · 26/02/2023 20:17

The lump sum is 3x the annual pension. This pension in final salary is calculated as Final Salary (this is the salary at the time of the end of your career not any particular earlier year OR the best 3 year average in last 10 years, revalued for inflation) divided by 80 and then multiplied by the number of complete years in that scheme.

Any pension earned after you’re in the career average scheme (whether that’s from 2015 or from 2022) has no automatic lump sum, as I mentioned above.

You need to look at your Pension statement to see your salaries for last 10 years revalued for inflation.

The teacher pension website does have some simple explainers of your pension statement to help you.

babyboo1and2 · 26/02/2023 20:31

Following for the great advice being given

BatsPigeonsRatsSquirrels · 26/02/2023 20:37

I'm sorry I am scratching my head over this bit
This pension in final salary is calculated as Final Salary (this is the salary at the time of the end of your career not any particular earlier year OR the best 3 year average in last 10 years, revalued for inflation) divided by 80 and then multiplied by the number of complete years in that scheme.
Earlier in the thread there was talk of 3 year averages etc?
Sorry; don't feel you have to reply! I do have access to my statements online. I think I'll probably retire when I can't force myself to go in on a Monday any more, rather than when I have enough money

Soozikinzii · 26/02/2023 20:52

Yes I got what was predicted . Check all your days worked are on sometimes there can be a few missed if youve changed jobs etc . I chose to take lowest lamp šum and maximum pension . But it's a sliding sale so completely up to you. Hope all goes well .

BG2015 · 26/02/2023 21:14

Soozikinzii · 26/02/2023 20:52

Yes I got what was predicted . Check all your days worked are on sometimes there can be a few missed if youve changed jobs etc . I chose to take lowest lamp šum and maximum pension . But it's a sliding sale so completely up to you. Hope all goes well .

When do you actually know the specific amounts? Is it once you've applied or when you actually receive your first months pension.

I need about £30k to pay off my mortgage so once my mortgage is at that amount I can apply. I'm overpaying but it's still £58k so a while to go yet.

That's my aim though.

OP posts:
Snowdropsarelovely · 26/02/2023 22:34

WombatChocolate · 26/02/2023 18:12

Agreed. Wesleyan can be really useful.

There is also a Facebook page called The Classroom in RearView devoted to pensions by a guy called Dave Fountain which is focused on Teacher Pensions. He sometimes posts on MN as DiddyDave. There are brilliant short videos explaining. Lots of it.

I'd definitely be interested in that Facebook page, but I can't find it. Is there any chance somebody who is on it could please post a screenshot so that I know what I'm looking for? Thanks in advance!

UsingChangeofName · 26/02/2023 22:58

Check all your days worked are on sometimes there can be a few missed if youve changed jobs etc .

I'd second this.
The rep from Wesleyan advised me to check as she said almost 50% of pensions she gets people to check, have mistakes in them.
I'd got some months randomly missing in the middle of a year when nothing had changed - same job, same school, same LA, same TLR, same spine point - then they just started paying it again Confused

BG2015 · 27/02/2023 06:43

It looks like this

Teachers - did you get your predicted pension
OP posts:
nearly55 · 27/02/2023 08:56

When do you actually know the specific amounts? Is it once you've applied or when you actually receive your first months pension.

I've applied for my pension to start towards the end of next month. I've just had confirmation of the final figures, so 3 weeks out. I have heard of people who have had notification just days before it was due, and some who had the money before the notification. In fact on the notes that come with the final figures it even says that you may be receiving the information after you've had the money. I think it depends if you apply at a busy time of year!

In terms of how much I am getting, it is pretty much what I thought it would be from the calculator/statement on the TPS website - just a few pounds more.

Overall, I have found the whole process quite frustrating as TPS were very reluctant to give answers to the specific quections I had. I'd wait ages for a response and then something very generic that did not answer my question at all. I got the most useful information from David Fountain (mentioned earlier in the thread).

And for anyone it helps, in the statement of what I will get and the notes, there is no mention at all of McCloud or what will be happening about this for those in both schemes. I can only assume that at some point in the future those of us it applies to will be contacted and asked what we want to do.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 27/02/2023 09:16

@BG2015 Could you get ill health retirement? It’s easier as you get older.

I got an enhanced ill health award. It was bang on what l was quoted.

l just don’t understand the McCloud thing😣

BG2015 · 27/02/2023 09:47

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 27/02/2023 09:16

@BG2015 Could you get ill health retirement? It’s easier as you get older.

I got an enhanced ill health award. It was bang on what l was quoted.

l just don’t understand the McCloud thing😣

Ill health retirement may be on the cards. I've also got asthma, which since radiotherapy and covid last year is constantly flaring up.I've had 3 periods of absence from school since September and I can see there will be more before the end of the school year.

I can't really afford to retire totally yet as I still have a mortgage. Im struggling to teach but could work in something else definitely.

It's just hard to get your head around never teaching again after nearly 30 years in the classroom- it's all I've ever known.

OP posts:
Words · 27/02/2023 11:59

This is really useful. I am affected by McCloud too.

WombatChocolate · 27/02/2023 12:12

The TPS website has lots of explainers on it - short videos.

They explain what the Final Salary Pension is, Career Average, McCloud. This, plus accessing your Pension Statement and looking at the explainer which goes through what the different elements in it mean, an give you a lot of info, if you give some time to it.

I think that the vast majority of teachers are perfectly capable of understanding the main points of it. What it needs is a bit of time - even just a couple of hours will give you a basic understanding of it. Even if people read this thread carefully, they’d get a basic understanding.

I think Pensions are a bit like Maths. Lots feel sure they can’t understand them, but with some useful info and explanation and importantly some time, they can understand the basics.

McCloud is the judgement that means teachers who were in service in 2012 and still in 2015, who were moved into the Career Average scheme in 2015 (which is what shows in your pension statement at the moment) will have a choice WHEN THEY TAKE THEIR PENSION as to whether to have the period 2015-22 years if service counted as being in the old FinalSalary Scheme OR the new Career Average Scheme.

As mentioned up thread, the pension statement doesn’t show this yet or the implications for individuals.

At the moment, the pension statement can only show final salary entitlement to 2015 and career average from 2015.

You can see the difference choosing Final salary for those 7 years 2015-22 will make. The calculation is your Final Salary (identified on your Pension statement - it will give you the best if Method A and B) divided by 80, multiplied by years if service April 2015-22. You can then add this to the final salary pension already shown for up to 2015.
The lump sum gained at 60 (if that is your normal retirement age) will be 3 x that.

Because the final salary scheme accrues at a lesser rate 1/80 of salary, whilst Career average is 1/57, the yearly pension by going for Final Salary will probably look less. BUT what you have to remmeber is that the Final Salary pension can be taken without reduction at 60, whereas the Career Average will be your state retirement age. Also it has no lump sum.

So, most long serving teachers with a decent chunk in Final Salary will benefit from McCloud and choosing to move 2015-22 back to Final Salary (no choice needed now - just when retiring) because they will be more able to retire sooner…most don’t want to work until 67. Some might need to.

Probably in 2024 the TPS pension statements will be updated so everyone can see the impact of the 2 options. Currently it’s not possible for them to do that. As I say above, you can easily do the calculation if you want to.

Other things that might help people thinking about all this;

  • consider how much you need to live on in retirement. Most teachers have paid off their mortgage and will no longer be making pension contributions or paying lots of tax, so can live on significantly less than their current salary.
  • rememeber you will have some state pension. Go online to check your forecast. A full state pension from April will be £10k per year.
  • If you feel you can’t keep going until 67 or when your oensions pay out, remmeber you can take them from 55 or 57 for career average for those reaching 57 after 2028 - the yearly amount you receive is reduced by around 4% each year because you are getting it for longer.
Key things to work out are what you need to live and what you will be receiving.

Various sites such as Which? and most pension providers have info to give suggested requirements for basic, moderate and luxury retirement for singles and couples, which lots of people find useful.

Teachers are perfectly capable of understanding this stuff. Many people struggle to get started or to prioritise putting 2 or 3 hours into research and that’s why they do t understand it…it’s actually because they haven’t actually looked into it. But rest assured that all of you are capable of getting to grips with it. It is important, and you might find that like me, it’s strangely compelling and you’ve become very interested in it. For me, it’s given me the realisation that with a few tweaks, I will stop work sooner than I might have thought. That’s got to be good news!

Snowdropsarelovely · 27/02/2023 21:39

BG2015 · 27/02/2023 06:43

It looks like this

Thank you

Foxymoxy68 · 01/03/2023 11:59

I'm taking early retirement this year (55 in August). I've found the Wesleyan invaluable in helping me work out whether it's affordable for me (thank fully it is!). I rang the TPS last week and they confirmed that they can't calculate the figures for me, in case they make a mistake and then their job is on the line! (She actually said this!). I was then told exactly how to work it out and it pretty much matched what the Wesleyan guy told me. It's complicated though due to being in 2 pension schemes and the reducing factors. I don't mind telling you that I'm taking the maximum lump sum (£71,000) and a smaller annual pension (About £950 a month). When I asked about McCloud, I was told I'd get a letter about it in October. They're behind with it apparently....
Although I've been teaching for nearly 31 years, being part time recently means that my service will be about 29 years. Hope this helps!

BG2015 · 01/03/2023 17:29

Foxymoxy68 · 01/03/2023 11:59

I'm taking early retirement this year (55 in August). I've found the Wesleyan invaluable in helping me work out whether it's affordable for me (thank fully it is!). I rang the TPS last week and they confirmed that they can't calculate the figures for me, in case they make a mistake and then their job is on the line! (She actually said this!). I was then told exactly how to work it out and it pretty much matched what the Wesleyan guy told me. It's complicated though due to being in 2 pension schemes and the reducing factors. I don't mind telling you that I'm taking the maximum lump sum (£71,000) and a smaller annual pension (About £950 a month). When I asked about McCloud, I was told I'd get a letter about it in October. They're behind with it apparently....
Although I've been teaching for nearly 31 years, being part time recently means that my service will be about 29 years. Hope this helps!

Thanks for posting your figures.

I'm just 54. My benefit statement says £30k lump sum and £15k pension if I retire at 60. So it sure what it would be if I went in the next couple of years.

I don't want to increase the lump sum as I'd rather have more pension.

OP posts:
Foxymoxy68 · 01/03/2023 18:43

I'd strongly advise you to book an online meeting with a financial advisor from Wesleyan. It's totally free and there's no pressure at all to buy into their products. There's no way I could do this without their advice.

BG2015 · 01/03/2023 20:28

I spoke to a Weslyan rep just before lockdown in Feb 2020 and she was very good. Definitely need to speak to them again.

OP posts:
backinthestoneage · 04/03/2023 19:45

Diddy Dave is the pension god - his advice has supported many. Weslyan is brilliant. Together these two give you retirement planning confidence IMHO.

Don't worry about the McCloud judgment as that will all come through in time.

Even better if you go onto TPS online you will see the uplift from the September inflation figure.

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