armbow here i am weakening i need a good talking to.

[armbow]

I am convincing myself that h will come to his senses and come home. it doesn't help that friends are saying the same thing to me. both his friends and mine all think he is foolish for throwing away his family.

i am thinking of writing him a letter (i know i know )in the hope to get through to him.

i am convincing myself he still loves me.

someone shout at me please.

SGB you keep saying this to armbow and yes, if someone leaves before they develop feelings for someone else, because they want to quit their marriage, then getting involved with someone soon afterwards is (although probably not the best idea) not an affair.

However, this man confessed feelings for someone else a year ago - and armbow and many others here suspect that her H did not wait to leave the marriage before starting a relationship.

Of course her H has got the right to leave the relationship, but I think armbow would be helped by knowing why his feelings have departed for her, don't you?

Oh and armbow if you are going to do this, don't forget the context of this. It is that now that you know, you feel a sense of release to get on with your life - and are glad of that. That context is the most crucial part of the message, actually.

WIthout wanting to hijack Armbow's thread, Whenwill: It's often only when a new desirable person appears that someone realises that their existing relationship is not working for them any more (not necessarily due to anything the existing partner has done wrong, or any inherent failing in the existing partner). There is a difference between having the affait (dating/shagging the new person) before ending the existing relationship, and becoming aware that you prefer the new person and therefore ending the existing relationship before 'doing anything' with new person.

SGB - do you not believe that "emotional affairs" are cheating then ?

I am inclined to side with sgb in this instance and although easy for me to say of course, whether he had an affair or not is actually immaterial

Armbow...the problem you have is that you are not listening to him. When someone indicates...byt their words and by their actions, an irrefutable truth you have to take notice, for your own sake. You can't make him change his mind. One day soon, you will understand that...and understand your own motives in this reluctance you have to let him go.

He is telling you he does not want to be in a relationship with you. Is that not enough ?

The problem with this one AF is that it is not immaterial to Armbow's recovery. And all the while she is thinking that he is a nice kind man who fell out of love, she is vulnerable to him changing his mind again and then jumping through even more hoops trying to be the perfect wife.

Unlike SGB (and I suspect we will never agree with eachother on this SGB) I think there is a world of difference between someone who is leaving their marriage because it has run its course without outside interference - and the person who leaves because they have developed "feelings" for someone else.

The trouble with this is that there seems to be a whole army of romantic idiots out there at the moment (male and female) who are convincing themselves that their marriages must be doomed because they've developed "feelings" for someone else. From what I remember about your original thread armbow your H acted like a horrified priest when he realised he had a perfectly normal crush on a work colleague, instead of a more grown-up, pragmatic response which is that these things happen.

What I suspect happened then was that he had such an immature, romantic response to those feelings, that he started re-writing history and convincing himself that he had been unhappy for some time, because after all, that would explain why he has these feelings for someone else, wouldn't it? Of course this is nonsense. He's just a normal person, capable of making a connection with someone else and feeling a bit of sexual chemistry. It can happen to anyone if they are not careful - but self-aware people recognise it and deal with it, acknowledging too that they are now finding faults in their partner that didn't exist before.

In many ways, your H sounds like a pompous and self-righteous prig armbow, pretending that he is somehow "other wordly" and immune to the flaws that beset "other men".

If SGB is right though and it turns out that he has left your marriage because he has developed feelings for someone else, then it would still be better that he was honest with you. It will give you a kind of closure, I think.

Tell it how it is AF! I do agree with you actually. Thing is armbow, he left you months ago when the other liason started. You have been coping on your own without realising it because he just hasn't been there for you. Just as I now realise my XP hasn't been there for me for the best part of 2 years (gulp). Well, if I'm going to be a single parent again, I'm bloody well going to enjoy all the benefits that brings. No more pandering when he doesn't appreciate it or respect you.

The problem though I see here, WWIFN is that this twat is not going to be honest is he ??

The ridiculous romanticism he has displayed in the past won't let him. He obviously has a jumped-up idea of his own decency and worth and will undertake a fucking shedload of deceit to both Op and himself to maintain it

Op will drive herself mad, trying to understand

She never will, because he will never be honest

You know I love your posts hugely, but sometimes I think you just have to listen to what your partner is telling you about himself and the kind of person he is. He doesn't want to be in an equal relationship with you, but wouldn't be too bovvered about stepping back there when he needs a bit of comfort and/or an ego boost. His previous MO has proved that...

And if AB carries on the way she is doing, that door remains open to him

I believe she slam it shut permanently. And if that entails maybe not getting all the answers she wants, at least she can get on with her life.

Just my thoughts... they tend to be pretty consistent particularly where selfish men keep unhappy women dangling on a string because they just won't admit how shabby they are. The fuckers should be shot

well hello ladies

(you will all be very proud of me)

i let my instincts guide me and i quite surprised myself. when i saw him he looked like a different man (not in a good way). i told him that i had been able to think about everything over the last few days, i gave him a brief synopsis of our relationship and where i felt it started to go belly up - namely his deceit about the involvement of OW and that i had closed the door on him. i thanked him for the 11 years that were good and told him that he behaved dispicably (sp)during the last 2. i felt the control coming back and he looked like a sad man to me.

i meant every word - no games - no hidden agendas - and IT FELT GOOD

I am proud . You did good.

Clapping icon!

Oh armbow I'm so proud of you. Glad it felt good.

Armbow, that was wonderful.

Oh, I wish I could give you a squeeze for that ! I will raise my wineglass to compensate

Now focus lady.

Like LC said, from today your life will start to be your own. Think of all the delights that will bring to you in the future ! I bet you sometimes had a little wistfulness in your marriage, a few "what-if's" maybe, or just wondering how certain stuff might feel when shared with someone else

This is something he will have to come to terms with now...that you are free to pursue whatever you want. Whether that is just savouring feeling free of worry and doubt. Or (eventually) enjoying relationships with other men.

He won't have thought about that !

"In many ways, your H sounds like a pompous and self-righteous prig armbow, pretending that he is somehow "other wordly" and immune to the flaws that beset "other men". "

Oh and by the way Whenwilli you are spot on with that statement.

"to not letting the buggers get us down !!!"

chinks AF

Most of all, AB, be proud of yourself, never mind is internet harpies

Expect a bit of a crash tomorrow though, love. 'Tis the way of these things, I believe

Ups and downs, ups and downs...

Well done Armbow doesn't it feel good when you see them and they look like shit?!

Well DONE Armbow! First great big step on the upward path.

Hooray! You're in control now. Don't forget how that feels and kick him to the kerb.

Well done Armbow

armbow, in an amended way. Can I borrow parts of your letter?
So sorry you are going through this. [squeezes hand]

Well done armbow I was cheering last night when I read your post. Taking back some control always helps when you're feeling battered and bruised and powerless.

I take it that you got no more honesty then? Well, as AF says, it's a shame, because I think it would have helped you to detach more easily, which is why I particularly encourage people to find out the truth.

Perhaps in this case it will be enough for you to know your truth and move on accordingly. Hopefully last night's conversation will give you strength now to put in place much-needed boundaries regarding his visits and access to the DCs.

after so long without any power or control over the relationship it feels such a release.

thank you all for your help.

cloudy - of course.

Hi armbow - how are you doing ? Still feeling strong ?