DH will lie rather than ever admit he is wrong....

[OfficeBird]

DH is a good man, loving father, and works hard to look after us, but there is one thing about him which worries me more and more.

He will lie, rather than ever admit he was wrong about something (however trivial). He rarely apologises.

Even when he is proved to be in the 'wrong' by me & the kids he just gets more and more angry, vehemently denying any responsibility, and trying to blame anyone /anything else he can .

I just find it so bizarre and wearing. I wish he could just say, OK, I forgot it/didn't do it/did do it and fess up, say sorry and we could move on.

Classic example this morning - we couldn't find DS's cricket bat. Yesterday DH had picked up our other child from school and brought home DS's stuff, as he (DS) was going to a friend's house. When I picked up DS later I asked where his sports bag & bat was, and he said Daddy had taken them. The friend's Mum also said DH had taken them home. Fair enough.

Later last night there's no sign at home of the bat. Not in car. DS says DH took it. DH says not and flares up at DS saying how dare he blame him . I mention that friend's mum had also said she saw him take the stuff. DH says she is 'mistaken' because otherwise it would be here, right?
DS tries to say that DH definitely took it, and DH just flies into a complete rage, shouting at DS, who ends up in tears .
This morning when I went into school office I was told it had been handed in, as it had been left in the car park (where DH parked).

I was angry on behalf of DS, and told DH where it had been found. He claims either the friend's mum or DS must have 'left it there', or the office were 'mistaken'....

WTF?

Why can he just not say "Oops, I must have forgotten to put it in the car.." ?

I know he won't he apologise to DS...

Why does he do this? It really upsets me. And if I try to talk to him about these occasions he just denies that he is ever in the wrong in any way, therefore does not accept that there even IS a problem?

Quite simply he's a child, because that is what children do, lie and lie even when they know that you know that they are lying.

How you can make him see just how unacceptable his behaviour is, I have no idea but I would always point it out to him when he lies, never just let it go, it's hugely disrespectful to you and everyone else around him.

I agree with malificence. It is bad enouhg arguning with you but to reduce your DS to tears is not on, it was only a bat.
Does he do this for important things as well as trivial stuff?

It is infuriating, I know, but it most probably stems from his childhood.

We teach our children to always tell the truth. We reward them for telling the truth. Older generations were not as democratic as we are today. Say for instance, a child throws a ball through a window by accident. Today, we would ask the child if he did it. We would ask him to explain what happened, how it happened. We give the child the opportunity to explain the circumstances of the event. When we learn what happened, we explain to the child what he did wrong and ask him to be more careful in the future. The child already feels bad enough about what happened, we do not make it worse by punishing him.

Now, if the same scenario played out a generation or so ago, the result would have been very different. If the child had thrown the ball through a window, by accident, he would have panicked. He would have panicked, because he knew that he was in big trouble. He would most probably have run away and hid somewhere. While hiding, he would have been straining his brain, trying to think up a lie or an excuse to explain what had happened. He would have heard the bellowing of a parent soon after. He knew that if he admitted to the 'crime' that he would be punished, even if he told the truth, so why bother. So, he would try and lie his way out of it. Deny it was him. Because the parent did not see the actual breaking of the window, it would not have been possible to say what really happened. If lying about the incident meant that he did not get punished, then that is what the child would do every time he got into trouble. Sometimes lying worked and sometimes it didn't.

In other words, if your husband experienced this as a child, he would have learned that telling the truth gets you into trouble and lying gets you out of trouble. His parents most probably punished him, even when he told the truth about something, perhaps when he was very young. So, they basically punished a truthful child. This has taught your dh to lie to stay out of trouble.

Now, many children grew up in circumstances like this and the majority of them outgrow the behaviour, but some don't. We all still seem to carry at least one (if we're lucky) negative thing from our childhoods around with us today. Your dh probably experiences the same feelings of helplessness and unfairness and unjustness and panic and fear of not being believed today, the way he felt when he was a little boy. Totally unnecessary, but nevertheless it's there. Every time he is 'accused' of doing or not doing something, he feels the desperation of that small child who wasn't believed and who was punished for telling the truth or admitting a mistake. So, he does what he knows will get him out of trouble and that is to lie. Like a child, he doesn't realise that others can actually see straight through is lies, but still he is insistent that he is telling the truth. The reason why he will never say sorry is because that would confirm the lie. He has to follow it through to the end.

I'm not sure what the solution would be to a situation like this, but perhaps you can try to ignore the lies, not trip him up or confront him over it every single time it happens, but perhaps 'reward' and tactfully praise him, when he does tell the truth. Perhaps then he will realise that telling the truth has better rewards than lying.

I was with you, NinaJane, nodding emphatically, until the last paragraph. Those habits would be too deeply ingrained by now to correct with such subtle methods. He really needs a spot of therapy to work through it, but men who willingly accept therapy are few and far between...

I have to say if it were my H I would be saying very firmly that he is not so bloody perfect that he is the only person in the world who never makes a mistake, but if he takes out HIS mistake on an innocent child again he will be in such trouble he will not know what hit him. I might even go so far as to point out he is behaving like a small child who is afraid of being beaten, rather than a grown man who should be able to own up to something which, when all's said and done, was not a big deal. And then tell him he can either get therapy or start shaping up off his own bat - if he had any intention of staying married. And I would be so angry that he would have no choice but to believe it. To be honest it is very unlikely I would want to end an otherwise fine marriage over this relatively minor issue, but at the same time, it is a very bad example to his children and he really should not continue to get away with such behaviour.

After putting the fear of God into him, then I'd start the tactful reward thing

Gosh, Nina - thanks for that lengthy explanation, you may be right.

I think he may also be lying to cover up when his memory fails him. I think he is getting more forgetful as he gets older, and tries to pretend it isn't happening.

I'm just sick of having to mediate between him and the kids though. This morning DS cmae to me and say, 'Mummy, I KNOW daddy took it and X's friend said so, but Daddy won't believe me' - how do I explain that one to him, when I agree?

No pun intended with "off his own bat" btw

Hi Annie, I have to admit, I was at a bit of a loss as to what can be done to rectify such behaviour. You are right, he probably needs to go for therapy, but as we all know, most men would rather clean a public toilet with their their tongues, than admit they need therapy.

OP, I don't know how you are going to deal with his behaviour, but Annie is right. If it upsets your children, then perhaps you need to threaten him. Tell him to either shape up (through therapy) or ship out (until he can learn to put his children's feelings above that of his own.)

I agree it's not something I'd end a marriage over, but it IS causing increasing tension...

He also does it about things he forgets to tell me, e.g.

• will tell me about something he's ordered, or arranged, and if I question it, he gets shirty and says "well, I DID tell you about it, so it's your problem if you can't remember" when I know damn well that he hasn't ever mentioned it. The funny thing is I can just TELL when he's lying and he knows he is, because he is so much more insistent that he's right! If it wasn't so annoying then it would be funny!

We've got round the telling me about events thing by me stating that if I don't have an e-mail/text/ entry in the calendar then as far as I'm concerned I haven't been told.

Thing is, I'm sick of covering up for him. Once he forgot to pick up one of DS2's friends from school, and had to go back for him, but then lied to me about it, and then I got it in the neck from the friend's Mum who thought I was lying to her .

It just feels like he's constantly undermining me/the kids, and his because I say so it must be the case attitude infuriates me....

Sticks and carrots, sticks and carrots

Rings a bell what you say about his memory too, OfficeBird. My dad was like that. He got absolutely livid once when he couldn't find his shoes, which he ALWAYS put in the same place so if they weren't there someone else MUST have moved them. He couldn't possibly have left them somewhere else because, well, he never did leave them anywhere else. And if he couldn't remember a thing happening, it hadn't happened.

I think the first thing you need to do is to stop covering up for him either with friends, family and especially with your children. If your children are already noticing that he's not always telling the truth then you must support them in that.

It's fine for you to say you don't know why he does it, but you do need to acknowledge to your children that it is happening. And maybe also point out to them that he does it to everyone, not just them, otherwise your DCs may start to feel it's their fault.

Jesus H Christ

why do some women infantilise their blokes ?

treat him like a toddler ?

carrot and stick ?

boot up the arse, more like and do not cover for him at the expense of your (other) children

your dc will lose respect for him as they grow up, and realise he cannot be trusted....don't collude with him so they develop the same opinion of you

challenge, and challenge again

shut up for an easy life ? no way....you are living with another child except he has no excuse for infantile behaviour

he should man up...and if he doesn't he isn't the man you thought he wa

*was

Has he always done this? Why would you choose to marry someone who does this? Why would you choose to raise children with smoeone who sets this example? I just don't get it.

Today I'm following AnyFucker around, agreeing with everything she says

OK. I have often done this stupid thing, for the reasons NinaJane described. As I'm not a bloke, I have had therapy and I consciously try not to do it. I still have to backtrack sometimes - which, btw, is what I did pre-therapy. I say, quite baldly, "I lied. Sorry." Your DH can do this, though it might take him a while to realise it doesn't hurt.

This is obviously the way to handle it with DS, friends, neighbours and general public: "DH forgot the bat in the car park. He lied about it, which was wrong of him." You absolutely should NOT be covering up his lies - it teaches the DCs very unhelpful things, and makes you look a twat in front of other adults.

Advise DH that you understand (perhaps) why he does it, but he's got to get over it. Otherwise, you'll start disbelieving every single thing he says (and keep your promise!)

"I lied. Sorry." It's not too hard - and a big step forwards.

hi office bird, my XP was very like that (and still is about DS), Maybe try looking at stuff about passive aggressive behaviour - you might find it useful? My XP lies about EVERYTHING, even when he's written an e-mail saying the opposite before .. a nightmare to deal with.

Nothing is ever his fault, guilt trips and emotional blackmail are his best forms of defence, and if they don't work, just lies and sarcasm. I remember once he agreed to do something with me and when I asked him whether he was still OK to go, he told me I'd MADE him say yes ..... and then when I said, OK well just a yes or no answer now would be good he said I was being controlling and bullying and trying to make him say yes ....

Never a straight answer, don't know if that rings any bells?
Never

"I think he may also be lying to cover up when his memory fails him. I think he is getting more forgetful as he gets older, and tries to pretend it isn't happening."

Poor bastard.

Has he always done this? Because if this is a new thing I would be very worried about him.

Poor you too, OP.

You need to have a very big conversation about this. He can't keep treating your children in this way.

I really hope this isn't the onset of Alzheimer's or anything nasty like that, but he should visit a doctor to rule it out.