How do I tell my pal of 30 years that I don't want to go on holiday with her

[VoluptuaGoodshag]

She keeps dropping mega hints which I don't take on board hoping that she'll get the message but still brings it up again at the next conversation.

We've been on holiday before years ago however she has changed somewhat in that everytime we are together or on the phone it's just one huge moaning session from her and I can't even get a word in.

We tried a camping trip earlier this year with our families and it was a 2 day endurance. Our DHs get on OK and our kids get on fine but she's a nightmare.

I've tried talking to her to solve her issues and help her but she just digs herself into a deeper and deeper hole of moroseness.

She also wants to meet up during the hols and to be honest I just can't be arsed - she lives 300 miles away. I know I'm being a crap pal but I'm tired of listening to her take no pleasure from life at all - it's so draining and I don't want to spend my precious holidays like that.

Oh dear. I believe in being honest with people but there's no way of telling her this without being hurtful, is there? Reckon you're just going to have to book something she can't possibly join in with, or even, er, be a little economical with the truth about why you won't be able to have a joint holiday with them this year.

As for meeting up, do I take it the only way this happens is if you travel 300 miles? Can't the travelling be her responsibility? Again, you may need to be inventive with reasons why you can't go.

Could her negativity be caused by depression, if she wasn't always like this?

Does she want a joint family holiday or for just the two of you to go away? Tell her that you want to holiday with just DH and the kids this year and you can't afford a girly holiday. And don't say anything until she actually asks.

We've already done our holidays this year thankfully but I think she's hinting at next year or some other time.

The 300 mile meet up would just be during the school holidays with no DHs.

I do think she has depression. I had a conversation earlier today with her on the phone and was trying to be subtle then was being very blunt and she just talked loudly over the top of me. For the camping trip we met halfway to make things less stressful. I thought she was really horrible to her DH during the trip and pointed this out to her during the phone conversation and she just went off on one about how that was nothing and how she knows what he's like blah blah blah. I felt really sorry for him, he was trying real hard and she was being a shit! She never even stopped to consider the words I'd just said, just immediately went on the offensive.

Even her text messages to me are all me me drama drama. I really have to psych myself up to make contact which makes me sad. I don't know how to get through to her so she can get help coz she's not one for taking a telling and perceives it as criticism of her.

KWYM Sugar. I think I feel obliged because we've been pals since school but she's been moaning and whinging for the last 10-15 years and I guess I cope coz I live so far away and don't see her so much

It does sound like she's suffering from some kind of depression... the thing with friendship is that it's about being there through the good and bad times. Some people can't face the fact that they're depressed or can't bring themselves to talk about it and it manifests itself in different ways - like her behaviour towards her husband etc etc...

I've been in situations like this on both sides. With depressed (and frustrating) friends who won't listen and won't help themselves, I find it's best just to ride it out. Yes it's annoying and frustrating but if you hold on to the picture of how she really is and have faith that she's in there somewhere, it gives you the strength and patience to hang in there until the real person emerges again or is ready to ask for help. When it was me who was depressed this is what my (real) friends did for me... I lost a few along the way who didn't think I was worth the effort but I'm so much richer now for only having true friends in my life. I don't resent those who fell by the wayside...having a difficult friend is no picnic (as you're experiencing now!)and sometimes people just don't have the strength to deal with their own problems and someone else's (particularly when said person doesn't think they have a problem!) sometimes the bond simply isn't strong enough - it doesn't make anyone a bad person, it's just life.

Only you know what type of friendship you have with her, and how much you are prepared to put into it or whether it's worth giving of yourself whilst she's in such a difficult place. I'm in the middle of this with two of my friends right now, and much as I want to bash their heads against a wall and tell them to shape up and start helping themselves out of all the negativity, it's just a question of taking a deep breath and hearing them out, reassuring them and letting them know they're loved and valued.

Blimey - you're all waaaaay more tolerant than me. In answer to the original query: 'I don't want to go on holiday with you'. I'm not trying to be funny: just tell her. She's a bore who brings you down - get rid.

Oooh Sugar - the dreading phone calls bit - I can relate to that.

I can also relate to Sand. I do want to tell her lots of stuff but it's hard getting her to listen, she just flings any suggestions back in my face. Been thinking about it all last night. I don't just want to ditch her - yet! I'd hate to think she was really depressed and I wasn't there for her but she does need to face up to reality.

Next time we are conversing and she brings up the holiday I'm going to be blunt and tell her it ain't going to happen because she needs to sort herself out and I'll also chuck in that I genuinely believe she is depressed and once she's finished shouting at me or being pissed off with me, she can call me for help.

I think sometimes when we have friends with issues we just want to "fix" them and get frustrated when they reject or dismiss our advice and insist their situation is hopeless or unfixable. It's really important not to lose sight of what a destructive beast depression is... it's not her dismissing your advice, it's the depression. I would stop giving advice and just listen (it's very hard... I usually eat something or keep a pad by the phone and write down my thoughts to stop me saying them out loud... ashamed to say I sometimes half switch off). When you're depressed you are so convinced it's hopeless that advice can be almost irritating because you "know" there's no hope.

So now I just listen and make sympathetic noises and reassure reassure reassure that I love my friend and am there for her and that I understand how awful it is... be honest and just say "I don't know what to say to you except that I'm here for you and I care and I really believe that this will pass and the sun will come out for you again".

I wouldn't say tell her that she "needs to sort herself out", (you'll just feed the depression) but just ask her if she's considered that she might be suffering from depression. The best way a friend put it to me was that "this just isn't like you, you're such a positive person and someone I consider a tower of strength." she helped me understand that it was a chemical imbalance that could be "easily" addressed rather than a personality or character flaw and took the shame out of the idea and made it easy for me to ask for help.

Just a thought... you know her better than me! Just a reminder that if it is depression, she more than likely won't react as you might expect her to. You sound like a good (exhausted) friend.

Voluptua I wholeheartedly agree with your last post. Sometimes it takes the bluntness of a (good) friend to open our eyes to reality. Much better to be honest than to simply drop her. Good luck.

She's been moaning and whinging for 10-15 years. She's not depressed - she's a pain in the ass. Delete!!

I'm thinking about what your saying re "it's not like you to be like this" but I'm actually struggling to remember a time when she wasn't. Is she depressed? I actually hope so in a weird way coz then that would explain her behaviour and attitude better but what if actually she is just one of life's moaners. She does feel put upon by the rest of the world and always plays the why does everything go wrong and I'm so hard done by without realising that life is just life and you have to deal with it and move on.

For example, on the camping weekend. She asked her DH to make her a cup of herbal tea which he did. She took a sip of it and went "bleugh, oh DH there's washing up liquid in the cup, my tea is ruined, oh no, that was the last teabag, oh DH for heaven sake". All this was said like it was his fault. He even replied "I didn't do it deliberately" and she gave him such a horrid look. It was painful to sit through.