At wits end with husband

[mrsallergy]

I don't know how to talk to my husband and get him to take baby/child safety issues seriously.

He is very laid back. Very very laid back. We have two children - 3.2 and 6 months, and I am always picking up potentially lethal things that my husband keeps leaving around in the children's reach - bleach and other chemicals, various power tools, plastic bags etc. I have asked him again and again to please put them higher up so our oldest can't reach it (they are ususally out of reach of the baby) but it just doesn't seem to sink in and I am feeling like a nag.

Tonight though I feel like I am completely through with it. We live in a house which has ceiling to floor windows upstairs. Christ you know where this is going already don't you. We have recently moved our son from a cot to a proper bed and he is still in the stage of getting out of his bed a lot and wandering around upstairs. I have asked my husband many times if we can get some made to measure stair gates to put up inside against them, or bars which go outside. He has always said it's not necessary because the windows (which open inwards) have a child-proof saftey catch on them which means you can open them a bit and no further and the children can't move them (sound a bit weird, but I live overseas and I've never seen any windows like this in the UK). All very well and good, except I come upstairs this evening (after our son was in bed) to find our ceiling-to-floor bedroom window wide open. Our son could so easily have gone on one of his wanderings and fallen out and ended up, christ I can't even think about it.

I have told him that I'm absolutely furious with him and he is to order bars for the windows tonight, which he is trying to do. I'm just at my wits end though, because he just doesn't seem to think about things like this, and I don't think I can make him do so because his personality is just so very laid back and forgetful. I know he wouldn't ever want to deliberately put the children in harms way but tonight could have ended in a tragedy because he just doesn't think. I know he is contrite and he will try not to do it again, but I just don't know that that won't happen and in all honesty I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing by potentially exposing the kids to this kind of danger. What on earth can I do? He is otherwise a good father and husband, but this part of him seems incompatible with family life.

why dont you order the made to measure gates etc? and enquire about fitting bars outside window etc? why should it be your H?

your son was in bed on this occasion - does he often wander?

agree potential danger there - but dont udnerstand why you not taking initative in getting safety in place? why is it his job?

switch to non-chemical home products.

move power tools out to a storage cupboard locked by you. so he has to tell you when he needs them.

if he has so many good points then work around his laid back ness and work as a team...

How horrible! That must have frightened the life out of you. Why not buy a stairgate today to go on your son's bedroom door? I never like the thought of my DS2 being able to wander around at night.

And I agree that you could put yourself in charge of safety stuff. You're never going to make your DH as good at anticipating danger as you are, so you'll have to be in charge of it all. YOU buy stairgates/lockboxes/whatever.

I'm so glad he's OK.

It should be my husband cestlavie because he speaks the language of where we live - we are in his country, I wouldn't know where to order the bars. And why should it not be his job? Why should it be my job to think about all of these safety issues and try to second guess his thoughtless actions? Why should I have to clear up after him all of the time?

I am going to ikea this afternoon to buy a stairgate for DS' room.

I had calmed down a bit this morning until I saw that he has sent DS to nursery without suncream or sunhat on a 25 degree day. Why does he not think about things like that? I am sick of it.

I agree that we are supposed to be working as a team. But we are not - I feel like I am looking after these safety issues on my own and worse still they are sabotaged by unthinking husband.

I am completely paranoid about safety but have still had a couple of near misses I would prefer not to think about. Most male toddlers have no sense of danger whatsoever. Do a complete safety audit of your house, make a list of stuff you need and get down to your local equivalent of B&Q asap, pref. without husband as he will only get in the way and start questioning everything you pick up.

I wish I had stuck to my bloody guns in the first place and insisted on the bars when we first moved DS to a bed. I am furious with myself for not doing so.

Thanks EndangeredSpecies - that is good advice.

My husband isn't laid back but he doesn't tend to think about consequences. If I don't do the risk assessment it won't get done so I take that on as my job. If I need his help I tell him and normally at a time I know he can't make an excuse to do it later!

I know it can be stressful having to take on all the responsibilty but you're just going to have to. Unless there are other issues with dh I think you just have to liVe with it.

The other morning dh got ds up before work and left him in front of the tv - when I went in to him after dh had left there was a full pack of aspirin on the sofa next to ds! I was so cross and when he came home he got both barrels! But the key thing with him is to explain why it is dangerous and often he gets it once I frame it from ds' point of view (looks like sweets etc) as often he just forgets that a 3 year old isn't rational or predictable.

My dh thinks I'm paranoid (cutting grapes in half etc!) but he understands that he has to accept it for my peace of mind as much as anything!

You are right digging, I am just going to have to accept that all of the responsibility is mine. I really should have insisted on the bars/extra stairgate and I could kick myself, I really could.

We have a different attitude to risk and I accept that, but it is exhausting following him around too - like having another toddler, but a very large one who can access all the dangerous toys. I feel like he doesn't take me seriously until something like this happens and I read him the riot act - it is hard work and not good for our marriage. I don't know how it can work realistically though - I mean, I can never leave DS alone with him on that basis.

It is exactly like having another child! I take a two pronged approach. the first is to make sure I have a good place to store all the dangerous things. If dh uses something and leaves it out I either nag him in a "everything in its place' way or I confiscate it so when he next needs it he can't find it and I can give him the 'if you put it where it belongs' lecture. This tends to work and he is better.

I have been known to pour his freshly brewed coffee down the sink because he has left it in a dangerous place. It is treating him like a child but ultimately ds' safety comes first.

Your son was fine - it just gave you a fright so don't blame yourself! Accidents can happen in the most innocuous circumstances. when ds was a baby he fell off our very high bed onto a hard wooden floor head first and his neck seemed to bend at 90 degrees. completely my fault and I spent the rest of the day cuddling him and checking for any signs of injury! I felt so bad!!!

it is hard work.. my exP was "like another child". in the end he had no redeeming features (in fact displayed distinctly unredeeming features)...it does depend on the redeeming features...

digging gave good advice

can you leave ds with him? hmmm...he ought to learn really....what about check lists before he goes out the door - suncream check hat check etc? some people need lists.... does your H accept eh is forgetful and wants to do something about it? use aids to help like reminders and lists stuck on door?

but depends long term how much you willing to put up with, what his redeeming features are etc.

as child gets older and more self sufficent might be ok...?

Thanks cestlavie - it's hard to say how open he will be to 'guidance' like this - part of the problem is that most of the time he thinks he's pretty infallible and never wrong. He was even searching for an excuse last night when he was apologising for leaving the window open.

He laughs at me for making a list before we go on holiday, but if it weren't for me it's in doubt that we'd get to our destination (he's turned up for flights without his passport twice in the time I've known him, thankfully when I wasn't travelling with him).

I am far from fallible (hence the list making) which is why it would be great to have two brains thinking about the safety aspects, rather than just mine. We are supposed to be a team, but it's not going to pan out like this in this matter and I have to do the best I can although sometimes I want to sob with frustration.

I can completely understand the 'throwing the coffee out to make him understand' approach diggerty. I know he will come home tonight and have the kicked-puppy-dog look about him and be all "Well all you have to do is explain nicely, you didn't need to shout", but sadly it seems that I do need to shout - I have tried asking nicely, I've tried telling in a polite but firm manner, but it just goes in one ear and out the other and it's only when something like this happens and I go into orbit that it actually seems to sink in. I hate it.

He is a good husband and father though - so patient with the kids and a good, kind man. I will find a way for us to work through it somehow.

I am back from Ikea now, complete with stairgate - Dante's seventh circle of hell with toddler and baby in tow. In reality the stairgate is only a temporary measure though because it relies on a human being remembering to close it and I need solutions which have as little room for human error as possible. I am also going to buy locks for the windows in england (we are visiting soon) as I have never seen them in shops here and my husband had never heard of them before. He will think I'm going totally over the top (they already have a saftey latch on, but it requires the user to remember to use it) but I think the windows have to be made safe, double safe and triple safe because if an accident regarding them occurs then that's it.

Wow. that is hair raising. he knows how eric clapton's son died?? I am sorry to bring that up, but maybe it might penetrate his forcefield of zen.

Here we go. Here's an example of how it goes. Here is a coversation we've just had:

Me: I'm going to buy locks for the windows as well when we're in england.
Him: What if there's a fire?
Me: Then we'll smash the window
Him: We don't need bars for the single window in DS's room. We'll just keep it locked (he locked and took the handle of it originally because it was the only one without any safety catch).
Me: No, we will get bars for all of the windows.
Him: Why? We will just keep that one locked shut.
Me: We'll get bars for that one too because someone may decide at some point to unlock it.
Him: It won't look very good.
Me: I don't care what it looks like. I absolutely don't care whatsoever what it looks like.

Now he has gone outside with a cup of coffee and is sulking. It's just such a bloody uphill struggle.

People do have varying approaches to safety measures in the home. I think it's possible that you and your H have got really polarized here ie you think he is lazy, careless and selfish and he thinks that you are a nagging, paranoid madwoman. Is it possible that you're a little bit over-anxious sometimes, hence your originally marrying a more laid-back man?
I know it's difficult given that modern parenting seems to be one long bout of media-induced panics about everything, but maybe you could think through some of your stressors and try to work out if they are really vital/dangerous/whatever or if there are some things you could loosen up on.

OP, you have my sympathies. My XH was very like this. It made everything so stressful as I felt I needed to do the checking for all of us, ds had some communication difficulties which meant we had to be extra careful where he was concerned. We had several near misses; he almost drowned on our last holiday, and used to run into roads frequently when under H's "supervision".

I've now tried to minimise the obvious risks in the home - medication, cleaning products, booze kept well out of reach, and locked up in most cases. Windows all have locks on, and are kept locked on their latches with the keys well out of reach and sight of the dc's, but easily obtainable in an emergency. I find it so much easier on my own, as I know I'm totally responsible, rather than sharing the responsibility and being let down.

I'm not advocating divorce as a way of resolving your issues though!! Sounds like you just need to be really proactive with your DH.

When DS1 was about 3 I had forgotten that I'd left the upstairs landing window open. He went up to the toilet and when I followed him up about a minute (if that) later he was kneeling on the windowsill.

We are in a three storey house so there was about a 20-30 foot sheer drop.

I can't describe how my blood ran cold seeing him on that windowsill. I've never admitted this to anyone before, it still shakes me up to think about it.

Sheer unforgivable stupidity on my part.

Please make sure your windows are safe.

So he either has a lax attitude or one that is normal in his country.

Up to you do decide.

My dh is from overseas - he's had massive 'accidents when young' and mil recently fessed up that her cousin was killed at the age of 4 by another cousin aged of 6 because the parents had thought it perfectly reasonable for them to be left alone (!!!!!) at that age with a loaded gun left on the table.

Naturally - my head is spinning around at that and my dh thought it was fine to sleep whilst in charge of a 15 month old.

So, if it's a cultural difference then that's for you to negotiate but whoever has the highest rate of health and safety for their kid is responsible for seeing it throught - in this case it's you. So you need to go do it.

I hear your pain. I've just arrived in our bedroom to find the sash window open at the bottom and wide enough for a toddler to climb through. We also have fights over safety issues. It drives me nuts too.

shove your dh out the window and see if it's no big deal then.
If he survives then it's alright then.

Poor you, hope he gets it soon.

I sympathise big time. This has been a massive issue for me too. My DH hasn't the same eye for safety as I have and it has caused huge arguments in the past. It feels like a massive weight to have to carry all of the time if it is solely you being responsible for safety - and of course the more you take on, the less he will have to think. I think you need to do what the others have suggested though and take charge of it - but just on the big issues.

I agreed with this poster: 'People do have varying approaches to safety measures in the home. I think it's possible that you and your H have got really polarized here ie you think he is lazy, careless and selfish and he thinks that you are a nagging, paranoid madwoman. Is it possible that you're a little bit over-anxious sometimes, hence your originally marrying a more laid-back man?
I know it's difficult given that modern parenting seems to be one long bout of media-induced panics about everything, but maybe you could think through some of your stressors and try to work out if they are really vital/dangerous/whatever or if there are some things you could loosen up on.'

Can I just say though, and please please do not take this the wrong way, if you are anxious a little bit about small issues too, could you have pnd? In hindsight, although I had every reason to be upset about the big things, I got very stressed about little safety issues for that reason.

Yes, we certainly do have different attitudes to risk and different personality types, and usually his laid backness complements my uptightness quite well.

I am finding it hard to compromise on this one though because the consequences of it are so serious, and because the liklihood of it happening (child falling through full length open window) are really quite high.

I'm not so angry now, I just feel beat, I really do. I know I have to be the one to ensure that all the safety measures are put in place, because he will not. That in itself - the full responsibility of it all - sucks, and is stressful, but I'm met with opposition from him all the time which makes it even suckier. It's like a war of attrition.

Not offended whatsoever pinkpanettone - you are absolutely spot on. There is no doubt in my mind that I am depressed. Not pnd though - been going on too long for that. I had been taking anti depressants before having DD, but stopped when we were TTC, intending to start again after she was born. However, the doctor didn't want to prescribe them to me unless I stopped breastfeeding, which I really didn't want to do. In the end she prescribed them (zoloft) but said it was up to me to accept the risks in taking them. As of course I'm so bloody risk averse, I haven't started taking them and will wait until I've stopped breastfeeding.

God this going off the thread a bit!

Anyway - I think with depression and anxiety thrown into the mix it makes it hard for me to sort out which is the stuff I need to get exercised about and which is the 'small stuff'. But it really seems to me that the very real possibility of children falling out of windows is not small stuff. Another example is that I came down this morning to see DH had left a bunch of screwdrivers and swiss army knife on the kitchen table. Is that small stuff? I would always make sure that kind of stuff is out of reach.

Dittany - he has a lax attitude to safety, and life, in general - not just with ds. He doesn't have problems with his boss because he is the boss, and before he was the boss his dad was his boss! He runs a family company and has worked there since he was 21. He is the oldest male of 4 siblings and I think part of the problem is that he is very much the golden boy of his family and when you've had people your whole life blowing smoke up your ass and telling you how marvellous you are it's hard to recognise any failings you might have. He is very marvellous in lots of respects, but he is forgetful, and that is why the safety measures we have in place at the moment are not working.

Pinkpanettone - I agree whole heartedly that the more I take on, the less DH will think. This has what happened in respect of things like going on holiday - I seem to have ended up in a position where I am now responsible for organising everything before we go whilst he does nothing and then says on holiday 'Did you bring X, Y and Z? Oh, why not?'. Last holiday I told him he was in charge of bringing the camera, battery and charger for it and he forgot the charger so we only have pictures from the first few days. I just don't see how it can work regarding the safety measures though because I cannot realistically shadow him the entire time he is in this house and as I've said before he's like a great big huge man-toddler who gets everywhere and into everything.

Good heavens - the story about your MILs cousin is horrifying giveitago. We are in sweden, and you'd think in the land of volvos safety would be top of the agenda, but it really doesn't seem to be the case. I've seen DH's friends and family members do things like leave baby on high changing table alone whilst they wander off to get something, not strap infant carrier into car properly etc. A rather telling cultural reference point is that this is the birth place of Alfred Nobel, the man who invented 'safe' dynamite, but the lesser known part of his story is that he actually blew up most of his family members first before doing so.

I don't sleep well at night!

I don't think it can be up to one parent to sort out safety - unless the child is never ever left alone with the other. Even if that were the case, the less safety conscious parent can leave a trail of hazards - meaning the other has to be constantly on guard, like you would when you're in strange places. You tend to relax a bit in your own home. If he's there and not thinking the same as you, it's hazardous iyswim.