P cheating, please could somebody help, I don't know what to do (long, sorry!)

[dismantlethesun]

Argh

Background- I was OW briefly. DP told me he and wifey had been separated for 7 years, they had not

We moved in together after 6 months, it became a fiery relationship because he hacked into my emails and read that I had said he was controlling

He banned all friends. He banned relatives. He banned staying 5 mins late at work. Banned certain clothes and shoes. Stopped me progressing in my career.

Began to falsely accuse me of things. Always false. Began to be very violent.

Reverted to old drinking habits. Drinks A LOT.

I got pregnant (one year in) and he got even more violent.

I suspected him of an affair because I found a message on his phone but he denied it then beat me up badly.

I really loved him. He was so good at controlling me, being ver 30 years my senior.

Had DD, he was awful. I told him I was leaving and he said if I left he would lie to social services and say I was a bad mother. I said, but I'm not I'm a great mother, he said 'I have police connections/etc etc they won't believe you'

So I stayed. During that year he nearly killed me with a wine bottle and with other acts of violence. He grabbed DD once when she was crying but I jumped in and fought him off her. He punched me hard in the head and strangled me while I was holding her. When DD was almost 1 she became acutely unwell and was admitted to hospital. She was there for 3 months and then she died.

He was never in the hospital, he was in the pub on his laptop, or somewhere else. He would tell me he was fcking a barmaid, then say he only said it to wind me up, he told me he was fcking a colleague, then said he only said it to wind me up. He would not let me stay in the hospital with DD overnight, because he said if I did he would leave and not pay rent so I'd be homeless (I was on extended maternity leave) and I got scared and thought DD wouldn't be able to be discharged if he did that as we'd have no home to go to. So I stayed.

She died, he turned up briefly to shed a false tear. I got pregnant immediately- I reget this now, but it was a one-off and I was extremely upset.

I went back to work, he became violent again, kicking me in the stomach hard. I bit him (one time) in self defence to get his arms off me as he was holding me down to kick me. The police were called and they let him go because he has 'connections' and he reported my act of defence. The only time I've ever fought back.

Baby was born. Blabla. He's now been made redundant. WE have no s*x life at all because he is so much older and is diabetic so it's pretty useless. But he has always said 'it works fine when I want it to' My grandma died, my best friend died the other week, and DP has destroyed all my other friendships except for a few in Canada.

I have just found a memory stick with his emails on it from work. I looked at it because he indicated he was emailing his wifelet (he wasn't) and he had hidden the stick. I read lots of it, including his sent emails which mentioned a new secret account. I logged in (same password for everything) and he has been having an affair since before DD was born.

WHat do I do?? I am scared. I am in rented accomodation that is more than my full time salary. DC2 is 5mths old. I have no income other than statutory maternity pay. I have no family now really and all my friends gave up 4 years ago. I am 24. I have ruined my career by having babies and being so unprofessional. Hell, I don't even know if I want to be in my career. I want to go back to uni. Or leave the country. Or right now I jjust want to curl up and die, quite frankly.

I honestly do not know how to handle this- he is still married to the ex as well, so I'm not entitled to anything if we split. I have a low income even when working full time. No childcare.

Thanks anyone, he's going to wake up in a minute and I'm going to have to pretend I don't know I really believed him when he said I was his soul mate etc. He said he loved me. I hoped he would change. I am mortified that I have been so stupid and didn't leave when DD was small.

If you have experienced that Marantha, then try to understand how heaping more condemnation on the OP is going to only have the effect of consolidating how worthless she feels...and increase the chances that she could go back because if she is this shit, why not ?

Your points are valid...but your timing and delivery are absolutely pants

Chatty - yes, I have received a couple of texts from Dismantle. He is still contacting her trying to get her to go back apparently. She also says she has spoken to a hospital worker that knew the "relationship" from when DD was in hospital and that the hospital will confirm she is a great mum and that the hospital worker was not surprised and remembered his threats.

She has said she will call NDV Helpline and I keep reminding her of that to get moving forward but last text said she was going for a coffee to re-read the emails about the affair in order to remain angry.

I'm going to sign off from here now as have to be out for a few more hours on school run and kids activities.

Marantha - the OP has acknowledged your point, she understands intellectually what you have said. We all do. We also understand that she is not in a logical place, she has been damaged by her partner and her mother. The difference is most posters are trying to help her find a way to limit and repair this damage and you are chipping away further at her self-esteem.

You don't need to keep posting variations of the same message, it's not that we don't understand what you are trying to say, it's that we just don't agree that it needs addressing here.

OK, bleedingheart, but you do realise that at some point, OP, HAS to address why she's put up with such cr*p from partner.
Maybe not at THIS time, but eventually. Cos if she doesn't she'll end up repeating same cycle with someone else.
I don't think anyone but herself can help her self-esteem, though.
No more arguments now, won't be on this thread again.

Honey, the time honoured phrase is: when you'e in a hole, stop digging.

Marantha yes, we all realise that, as does the OP and she will get this counselling from professionals at dedicated refuge/help centres at a time that is best suited to her recovery. Not now.

Dismantle - if you're reading this -

That's great that you have contacted someone else in RL - a hospital worker BUT you need to be contacting Women's Aid again or the domestic violence helpline.

Surely you won't have the funds to stay in a hotel for long?

Are you sure that you will be safe where you are going for coffee etc - if it is somewhere you usually go then your partner may find you?

marantha - yes let's hope OP gets to go on a pattern changing course (google it if you're interested)

Dismantle

DO NOT LET THE DUST SETTLE

YOU ARE NOT SAFE

YOUR BABY IS NOT SAFE

I agree mamsnet Dismantle please stop spending time reading the emails. You are not yet safe. Ring WA so they can start acting on your behalf NOW.

Failing that, take UnlikelyAmazonian up on her offer. Even if only for a few days. You can get your head together, read this thread, read your emails if you want to, but start to see a way to start healing yourself.

What are you waiting for?

cant thanks for the update - bless her, it's a very difficult situation for her, easy for us to say get out and stay out, but a lot of emotional investment on her part which is hard to put aside. Just hope she can stay angry and stay away.

Dis - if you ever want a chat, let me know, understand how difficult it is for you

My fear (and everybody's, no doubt..) is that going back now would make things far worse than if she had never left..

Dismantle Please!!!!!!

cant I have emailed you. Offer is open-ended. I hope dis stays in touch with you. What a strange and frightening time she must be having today. God I hope she stays strong.

I think the best reaction is to leave Maranthas posts as they are. Otherwise all the attention is going to a place where is isnt needed tbh. Sometimes people need to make it all about them - irrespective of what else may be happening. Lets all not let that happen.

CTFN - thanks for updating. I guess all we can do is wait this all out. The next step is one that only Dis can make. Hopefully she is reading these posts. You can do this dis.

from the same site as the above link I also found this article called "Love and Stockholm Syndrome"

Quote here:

Family and Friends of the Victim

When a family is confronted with a loved one involved with a Loser or controlling/abusive individual, the situation becomes emotionally painful and socially difficult for the family. While each situation is different, some general guidelines to consider are:

• Your loved one, the "victim" of the Loser/Abuser, has probably been given a choice - the relationship or the family. This choice is made more difficult by the control and intimidation often present in abusive/controlling relationships. Knowing that choosing the family will result in severe personal and social consequences, the family always comes in second. Keep in mind that the victim knows in their heart the family will always love them and accept their return ? whenever the return happens.

• Remember, the more you pressure the "victim" of the Loser/Abuser, the more you prove the their point. Your loved one is being told the family is trying to ruin their wonderful relationship. Pressure in the form of contacts, comments, and communications will be used as evidence against you. An invitation to a Tupperware party is met with ?You see! They just want to get you by yourself so they can tell you bad things about me!? Increasing your contacts is viewed as ?putting pressure? on their relationship ? not being lovingly concerned.

• Your contacts with your loved one, no matter how routine and loving, may be met with anger and resentment. This is because each contact may prompt the Loser/Abuser to attack them verbally or emotionally. Imagine getting a four-hour lecture every time your Aunt Gladys calls. In a short time, you become angry each time she calls, knowing what the contact will produce in your home. The longer Aunt Gladys talks ? the longer your lecture becomes! Thus, when Aunt Gladys calls, you want to get her off the phone as quickly as possible.

• The 1980?s song, ?Hold on Loosely?, maybe the key to a good family and friend approach. Holding on too tight produces more pressure. When the victim is out of the home, it?s often best to establish predictable, scheduled contacts. Calling every Wednesday evening, just for a status report or to go over current events, is less threatening than random calls during the week. Random calls are always viewed as ?checking up on us? calls. While you may encounter an answering machine, leave a polite and loving message. Importantly, don?t discuss the relationship (the controller may be listening!) unless the victim brings it up. The goal of these scheduled calls is to maintain contact, remind your loved one that you are always there to help, and to quietly remind the controller that family and loved ones are nearby and haven?t disappeared.

• Try to maintain traditional and special contacts with your loved one - holidays, special occasions, etc. Keep your contacts short and brief, with no comments that can be used as evidence. Contacts made at ?traditional? times ? holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, etc. ? are not as threatening to a controller/abuser. Contacts that provide information, but not questions, are also not as threatening. An example might be a simple card reading ?Just a note to let you know that your brother landed a new job this week. You might see him on a Wal-Mart commercial any day now. Love, Mom and Dad?. This approach allows the victim to recognize that the family is there - waiting in the wings if needed. It also lessens the lectures/tantrums provided by the Loser as the contacts are on a traditional and expected basis. It?s also hard to be angry about brother?s new job without looking ridiculous. Also, don?t invent holidays or send a reminder that it?s Sigmund Freud?s birthday. That?s suspicious?even in my family.

• Remember that there are many channels of communication. It?s important that we keep a channel open if at all possible. Communication channels might include phone calls, letters, cards, and e-mail. Scheduled monthly shopping trips or outings are helpful if possible. The goal is to maintain contact while your loved one is involved in the controlling/abusive relationship. Remember, the goal is contact, not pressure.

• Don't feel the victim's behavior is against the family or friends. It may be a form of survival or a way of lowering stress. Victims may be very resistive, angry, and even hostile due to the complexity of their relationship with the controller/abuser. They may even curse, threaten, and accuse loved ones and friends. This hostile defensiveness is actually self-protection in the relationship ? an attempt to avoid ?trouble?.

• The victim needs to know and feel they are not rejected because of their behavior. Keep in mind, they are painfully aware of their situation. They know they are being treated badly and/or controlled by their partner. Frequent reminders of this will only make them want less contact. We naturally avoid people who remind us of things or situations that are emotionally painful.

• Victims may slightly open the door and provide information about their relationship or hint they may be considering leaving. When the door opens, don't jump through with the Marines behind you! Listen and simply offer support such as "You know your family is behind any decision you need to make and at any time you make it." They may be exploring what support is available but may not be ready to call in the troops just yet. Many victims use an ?exit plan? that may take months or even years to complete. They may be gathering information at this point, not yet ready for an exit.

• We can get messages to people in two ways - the pipeline and the grapevine. The pipeline is face-to-face, telling the person directly. This seldom happens in Loser situations as controllers and abusers monitor and control contacts with others. However, the grapevine is still open. When we use the grapevine, we send a message to our loved one through another person. Victims of controlling and abusive individuals are often allowed to maintain a relationship with a few people, perhaps a sibling or best friend. We can send our loved one a message through that contact person, a message that voices our understanding and support. We don't send insults ("Bill is such a jerk!) or put-downs ("If he doesn't get out of this relationship he'll end up crazy!) - we send messages of love and support. We send "I hope she/he (victim) knows the family is concerned and that we love and support them." Comments sent on the grapevine are phrased with the understanding that our loved one will hear them in that manner. Don?t talk with a grapevine contact to express anger and threaten to hire a hit man, and then try to send a message of loving support. Be careful what and how the message is provided. The grapevine contact can often get messages to the victim when we can't. It?s another way of letting them know we?re supporting them, just waiting to help if and when needed.

• Each situation is different. The family may need to seek counseling support in the community. A family consultation with a mental health professional or attorney may be helpful if the situation becomes legally complex or there is a significant danger of harm.

• As relatives or friends of a victim involved with a controller or abuser, our normal reaction is to consider dramatic action. We become angry, resentful, and aggressive at times. Our mind fills with a variety of plans that often range from rescue and kidnapping to ambushing the controller/abuser with a ball bat. A rule of thumb is that any aggression toward the controller/abuser will result in additional difficulties for your loved one. Try to remain calm and await an opportunity to show your love and support when your loved one needs it.

• In some cases, as in teenagers and young adults, the family may still provide some financial, insurance, or other support. When we receive angry responses to our phone calls, our anger and resentment tells us to cut off their support. I?ve heard ?If she?s going to date that jerk, it?s not going to be in a car I?m paying for!? and ?If he?s choosing that woman over his family, he can drop out of college and flip hamburgers!? Withdrawing financial support only makes your loved one more dependent upon the controller/abuser. Remember, if we?re aggressive by threatening, withdrawing support, or pressuring ? we become the threatening force, not the controller/abuser. It actually moves the victim into the support of the controller. Sadly, the more of an ?ordeal? they experience, the more bonding takes place as noted in Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance.

• As you might imagine, the combination of Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance may also be active when our loved one is involved in cults, unusual religions, and other groups. In some situations, the abuser and controller is actually a group or organization. Victims are punished if they are viewed as disloyal to the group. While this article deals with individual relationships, the family guidelines may be helpful in controlling-group situations.

Sorry for length of quote - but I think it is useful. It is certainly useful re some support I was trying to give a rather distant friend - when contacting her I felt like I was "checking up on her".

We have given OP a lot of support on this thread. She knows where the thread is - she has can't's contact details. I don't think it is fair if can't has to feel responsible for texting OP and updating here - and indeed if can't keeps texting her and asking for updates then (as per the above) it may well be counter-productive.

I'm sure Dismantlethesun will come back and update us as and when she can too tabouleh.

dis, focus on this being taking time out to think and needing a break - one step at a time. but a complete break in contact with him is what you need.

and remember he may get nasty when "nice" doesnt work...

Ineedmorechocolatenow - thank you for posting the link to that article - I guess I am on the first step of the detachment strategy/plan - the part where I am observing my H's behaviour. The article is very insightful and very helpful - thank you.

No worries overtheshoulder - I saw it on another thread and started reading. It seemed to be echoing what many of you have posted on this thread. I'm glad it could offer you some help.

I hope you progress through the 'strategy' soon x

I have a friend whose p does exactly the same 'good cop/bad cop' thing every time she leaves him. She always falls for it and ends up going back, only for him to do something even worse than he did before when she gets back.

Nothing he tells you is the truth, he has calculated what will confuse you into coming home.

This is who he is. You have seen his true colours. He will never, ever change.

But, the life that you've been experiencing is not really you. You CAN change if, and only if you are away from him.

Just by a few posts on an anonymous forum, you have received uncountable offers of genuine help. You are a very special person and you will get the same help in rl too. People aren't saying things just to look charitable, they mean it.

Please stay safe and keep putting yourself and ds first.

UA I just wanted to say how proud and delighted I am that you have made such a generous offer after all of your trauma. You have done yourself proud, milady, in going from a very bad place to a place of empathy and power. Utterly impressive.

Dis keep posting. We know how hard this is.

Dismantle, don't feel embarrassed, and for heaven's sake don't worry about us. We're OK, you're not. We're just concerned about you, and I for one would rather you kept on posting, no matter what, than just disappeared into the ether.

Do not believe anything he tells you. You now know how many lies he has been telling you throughout your relationship, so you know that he will not suddenly be telling the truth now.

Also, if you keep the door open, as it were, you are in danger of him storming back in and he will be worse, much much worse.

All in all, it's not a bad idea to just go away somewhere on neutral territory to get your head clear. Where in the UK have you never been before?

Evening all. OP having some problems logging into MN.

She has read, listened and is starting to sort things and speak to people in RL.

She's truly truly grateful to everyone here and says that she wouldn't have had the kick she needed without MN.

I'm also hoping to meet her next Tuesday with some other posters.