My Mum

[mimmum]

I don't really know where to start with this, but at the moment I'm really feeling pretty wretched and thinking I don't want to see my mum ever again. My dad died 2 years ago and it has been pretty difficult for everyone especially her. I do know this, but she has gone from being difficult to really difficult.

I don't have lots of good memories of my childhood, I had a sister with social needs and she found this hard to cope with. She wasn't a warm, caring or empathetic person and I don't feel she ever really nurtured me or listened to me in the way I needed. To be honest most good memories are connected to my Dad though I realise he wasn't perfect either. If I had a problem what I remember was being told I was ridiculous or it wasn't important. She would say to me that she loved me but she didn't like me, and that hurt. There is more but it would take too long.

Anyway had huge argument with her last week and how I felt all came out. I told her she had been a lousy mum. She said she had tried her best and that I had been a difficult awkward child. She said I had been a horrible teenager. She said she had tried to offer affection but I had been hard to reach. I said that as my mum surely she bore the responsibility for this, but she seemed to think that a lot of it fell to me. I may have been unhappy and depressed as a teenager, but I didn't go off the rails or cause the problems teenagers can. She always says to me that she is obviously fine as she has lots of friends and it's true she does, more than me. I have a few good friends but have never found making friends easy. So maybe it is my problem I am just horrible, difficult, and awkward. She says what I said to her was unforgivable and that she took good care of me fed me good food, looked after me. But I grew up thinking she didn't like me and I just don't know up from down any more.

Your memories are your memories and your feelings are your feelings. They can't be wrong and they shouldn't be dismissed by others, especially not your mother.

I'm sure others will be along with better advice but I would suggest reading the toxic parents book and spending time deciding on what you really want from this relationship with your mother. And what you find unacceptable.

Am first of all very sorry to read of your Dad's passing. My guess too is that she was jealous of the relationship you had between you and your Dad so acted as she did. It is certainly no excuse for how she behaved towards you; she failed you abjectedly. Her own parents likely made her this way, do you know anything at all about her own childhood?. Again its no justification for how she has behaved.

She may well have fed and clothed you but the nuturing was just not there.

No, you are not being horrible, awkward and difficult; she is instead projecting all her crap onto you. Toxic parents often use such terms to describe their childrens actions; it deflects their lack of action back on to the child now adult.

I would not think your Mother feels she has done anything wrong at all and will certainly not apologise nor take any responsibility for their actions. Again this is typical of toxic parents.

Would suggest you read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward as a good starting point. Another good book is "When you and your Mother cannot be friends" by Rebecca Secunda.

I would also urge you to read and post on the "Stately Homes" thread on these pages too as it could well help you more. Counselling for your own self solely re your relationship with your Mother would be helpful. BACP have a list of counsellors and would not charge the earth.

I would certainly not critisise you in any way for cutting such an awful person off.

It does sound a little from your post like you want to lay all the blame for being a depressed teenager at your mother's feet. Why do you think she should bear all the responsibility for your depression? Do you think she caused it? (I'm not being provocative, just genuinely wondering) Do you remember her attempts to reach out to you that she claims she made?

I can also remember being told my problems weren't important and I was being ridiculous. And being told "I love you but sometimes I don't like you very much." So I do understand how hurtful those words can be. But I also remember tenderness and affection, and sometimes being made to feel like the most special and important thing on the earth (mainly when I was older and my older siblings had left home - this could be significant - when your mother was giving your sister a lot of attention because of her needs, maybe this would explain why you got a raw deal? I certainly got lots more attention and love from my parents once I had become the only child at home)

I really wish you well and hope you can work on your relationship with your mum and both of you get to a better understanding of each other.

From what mimmum writes there was no such tenderness or warmth or being made to feel at times special. Her mother seemed to want to play no part at all, it was her Dad who was the kinder person. Many adult children of toxic parents can and do downplay such situations because they themselves feel at fault; they think they made their parents act like this. Not so. Such people are often trapped in FOG as adults - fear, obligation, guilt.

You are "supposed" to get on with family after all; well this is the image society likes to portray.

Sometimes too it's not what these people did, but what they didn't that has been harmful for us.

Anyway mimmum I can only reiterate what I wrote earlier. Doing those things could well help you.

Fail to see what point MrsSawdust is trying to make here. I wuld recommend the above books and links as well.

Thanks for your understanding replies. Just to clarify I don't entirely blame my Mum for the having been depressed as a teenager, she was telling me how horrible I was as a teenager, so what I am trying to say was that really I don't think I was so awful, I was unhappy.

I feel I can't win though, my Mum would be devestated if I cut off contact, and I don't think I could live with myself. I do feel a great deal of obligation and have spent most of my life trying to please people and feel accepted by them.

I know that she had a very impoverished, in all senses of the word, childhood and my sister says to me that I shouldn't blame her that she couldn't help it and that I should accept that I am to blame too. I don't know, starting to feel that I really do need to see a therapist. All these thoughts going round in my head and I just can't make sense of it.

Oh and just to clarify I have 2 sisters and a brother.

Just wanted to add that I can understand how you are feeling. I've had a big bust up with my mum & not spoken to her in months.

I've posted on here & bought & read the toxic parent book. TBH I'm not sure that it will help you...when I read your post I almost felt it was me writing it..and the book didn't help me.

The point is, your mum may have felt she was doing her best. What you need to do is to move on. I always thought that in order for my mum & I to be reconcilled, she's need to apologise. Of course what I need to do is realise she may never do this & I need to literally mend myself.

I disagree with what your sister.The feelings are yours & your entitled to feel how you like.

Have a look at this book, Jeffrey Young

I've just started this theraphy

I think the point I was trying (albeit badly) to make is that not all parents who have a difficult relationship with their offspring are 'toxic' or 'abusive', or as someone further up the thread put it, an 'awful person'.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong about your feelings either, it's just that your mum, while she doesn't sound like a role model for loving motherhood, she doesn't sound like an emotional abuser either. From your descriptions she sounds like someone who wasn't very happy back then and struggled to fulfil her role as a mother of four (she didn't exactly have a role model of her own to look to by the sounds of it) but she genuinely thought she was trying her best.

I do agree with another poster though that she shouldn't be putting all this back onto you. If you are to have a useful dialogue about these issues, she needs to be more open minded about her own shortcomings in your relationship.

mimmum,

I would strongly disagree with your sis; you were not to blame!!!.

How do the rest of your siblings get on with her?. Do you think your Mother would do the "divide and conquer" tactic with your sibs and encourage them to take sides i.e hers if you did decide to cut her out?. Is this also why you are hesistant about going no contact?.

I would suggest you seek out a therapist to discuss all this further. BACP have a list of counsellors and do not charge the earth.
I would certainly now limit all contact to what you yourself are comfortable with. Get caller id for your phone as well.

I would not actually think she would be devastated if you were to cut off contact; more like angry that she has now lost her control over you. To be told what you were as a teen was just plain wrong and there is no justification for it. You would not have tolerated it from a friend, why should your mother be any different?.

For what its worth as well I feel she was jealous of the relationship you had with your father. Some women get like this, its often linked to being made to feel abandonned themselves as a child.

She may well have had an impoverished childhood but not all people of her generation turned out like that by any means. She is like this likely because her own parents treated her just as badly and knows no other way. She has not wanted or has been able to address her issues. Such problems as well often become generational in nature.

For what its worth too I do not think she will ever accept her part in all this because she is unable to take responsibility for her actions. She will also likely give you a long laundry list of your own "supposed" shortcomings.

I had an extremely difficult relationship with my mother. I don't know why she was like she was....clearly something was wrong, and she projected it all on to me...the scapegoat. My sisters can do no wrong, and are way more screwed up than me, and so are their kids.

I had no idea just how bad it was. I have been doing inner child therapy, on the NHS. I have realised that I had a severely emotionally abusive mother and that she has caused me endless suffering.

She too "defined" me as being the problem. Never her. I was defined as difficult, prickly, hard to love etc. She is so deluded, she thinks that I am evil and demonic. This is bollocks, I was a normal, sweet little girl, who needed love, same as anyone else.

As are/were you.

Do not allow this woman to define who you are. YOU must do that. You know the truth. It's in your tummy.

Some people just make shit not very good parents.

Your mum may have done the best that she could, the best she was capable of, but that may mean that some of her issues have been 'passed on' to you.

Btw I was depressed as a teenager too - and to have clinical depression as a teen or a child shows that most likely there are psychological issues from childhood that need to be tackled.

You say she defends herself by saying that 'obviously she is fine as she has lots of friends' (therefore there must be something wrong with you) and this reminded me of my mum, who is a very, cold, loveless person, and she always says that it obviously isn't true as she is in a caring profession, as a nurse (so obviously there is something wrong with me).

It strikes me that both things are odd to point to! If someone said to me, you are cold and emotionless,I wouldn't say oh but I have lots of friends, so that can't be true, I would say no I have a great relationship with my daughter, I love her lots, I empathise with people, I like to help others etc.

She knows you're right and she won't / can't admit it and so shifts the issue - I have lots of friends, you don't, therefore the problem is you, not me.

Up to the age of ten, I could have written you post, unfortunately after that things got worse and did go over into the area of emotional abuse.

It really messes with your head. A mother is supposed to love you for always (I also got told I love you but I don't like you!) but sadly not everyone is actually capable of loving their children as they should be loved.

I hope this sets you off on the right direction and that you find peace.

Sorry meant to say things got worse and went further into the area of emotional abuse.

Keeping this general. For 45 years, I avoided "blaming" my parents for my problems. They weren't great, but they did some things right. And, of course, they did the best they could.

All of this is true, but I'd missed the point of 'inner child' therapy. It's not about blaming other people; it's about understanding yourself. Without facing the facts of your childhood, you will never be able to break free. Emotional 'scripts' & patterns of thought will keep you locked in, causing whatever distress & difficulties you continue to suffer.

In facing the facts, you will acknowledge some really bad parenting by the people you trusted to nurture you. It is painful, no doubt about it. I went through some time of hating my M&P for teaching me such unhelpful beliefs, but in the end I hate what they did - they are still imperfect people, who did the best they knew how. It's all quite simple really, but difficult to work through because it goes so deep.

Other family members discourage close examination, as your explorations might (they fear) make them look at their own faults. This isn't necessary. As long as you resist the temptation to force it on them, things carry on pretty much as normal with your siblings.

mimmum, denying othes' feelings is almost universal in dysfunctional families! Your feelings are just that - they're feelings, and they're yours; how can they be wrong? They can't be right, either, btw. Feelings aren't judgements. Interestingly, one of the ways you can spot a recovered 'adult child' is that they'll never tell a child "You're not cold" or "not hungry". If the child feels cold, it feels cold. Simple! So why did our parents make it so complicated??

Dunno if this helps you at all? There's such a lot of suspicion around inner child therapy and it's quite unnecessary. It's not about blame. But it is about facts. I wish you luck & good support, while you find out your truths

Lovely post Grace

mimmum - I also have always had a difficult relationship with my mother - and father.
Was always been told it was all due to my being a cold,difficult child who pushed love away

Since deciding I would not play along with their version of me any more,my two younger brothers have disowned me.It's never been easy.

My mother is a paediatric nurse whose advice on children is sought by others...

I have broken away entirely several times,had therapy and considered myself "sorted".
But,for me,the mistaken but seductive hope that it might be different this time,or that it was me after all,has led me to sink back into the family script.A painful,disappointing and ultimately hopeless experience in my case.

I need to break away to be me,but this is not the case for everyone.

It is not you who is horrible,awkward and difficult.You did ,and do deserve love and respect.

Grace has put it beautifully.
I wish you well.

Thanks for all your messages, I'm really touched. I've got a lot to think about. Sorry for not writing more, just feeling quite low at moment. Will write more later.

Thank you for your validation, PM

I didn't know how to reply to Mrs Sawdust, though I really want to. I've picked out this for comment: "hope you can work on your relationship with your mum and both of you get to a better understanding of each other."

I doubt whether that's possible. She's a woman who blames her child for failing to build a good relationship with her - so she is not, in her thinking & feeling, a mother. She rejected responsibility for the relationship back then, when she held all the cards, so why would she change now, all of a sudden?

I feel I've come half way towards fulfilling that wish for myself: I have a better understanding of my mother. I have the impression she doesn't know me at all.

how old is your mum?

my parents weren't bad, but they grew up during & after ww2, when feelings really were repressed. they both also went to boarding school, and neither of them had particularly motherly mothers. considering all this, they did a pretty good job - my mum made it her mission to make sure me & dsis knew we were loved and would never have sent us to boarding school. in fact, she is a bit of a helicopter parent, and admits this herself (and, now a helicopter grandparent)

it's just that a certain era expected parents to be objective about their children, (think of kipling's 'if', it mentions NOT showing favouritism, even if you love someone completely).

Also, there are women (i haven't heard of this applied to men, though i'm sure they exist) for whom the 'mum' gene just doesn't exist - they just don't love their kids. they may well go through the motions, but that depth of mother love isn't there. apparently, there's some chemical dysfunction in the brain, it has nothing to do with upbringing & isn't PND, though similar. the mother doesn't get depressed, but she just doesn't love her kids. she may well like them, or feel affection for them, particularly as they get older, but that rush of mother love never happens.

your mum having lots of friends shows more about how she gets on with her peers than about whether she was a good mum. getting on well with people her own age has v little to do with her ability to parent.

you do need to find a way to move on, or you'll be caught in this forever. whether you need formal counselling, or just time & space to think it through yourself, is your decision. you also need to remember that it's possible to have a shitty childhood, but to make your adult life your own.

Mimmum, how are you feeling ?

Hi mimmum. Hope your doing ok. I am wondering if you have considered having some grief councelling? I mention this because my difficult relationship with my Dad became even more difficult after the death of my mum. About a year after my mum died I was so angry with my dad that I was ready to end all contact. It was stuff that had been there since childhood ( and teenage years.) I think my mum had been a good filter of my dads comments and without her there, i just found him very difficult and I was so tired of being (emotionally) hurt by him.

Anyway I went to the doctors and asked for grief councelling, for my mum ( but mainly so I could talk through the issues surrounding my dad.) It really did help.

I still have my dad in my life ( which I am really pleased about.) He still winds me up but a lot of the anger and hurt I felt is not there in the same way.

It's just a suggestion. Death of a family member often stirs up lot of emotion and old hurts.