Dreading the day when my brother comes over...

[Mrsbubblebum]

So i just need to moan i think...

My brother dropped out of uni again. He basically just can't be arsed to study, he says it's too hard and he doesn't like it there. He was studying chemistry and he is more then able to finish it. He is so smart sometimes it makes me angry

So he has no job, my parent are fed up with sending him money every month and now he is coming over to stay with us.

I have a three year old daughter, we moved into this house about 9months ago, and it's finally feeling like home. We're settled and happy.

My brother is planing to come over get a job after few months find a room to rent somewhere else. And in a years time find another uni to apply to.
Sounds great but i'm afraid it won't work out so well...
Last summer he was working for my dad and he was lazy, he wasn't doing any work just lying on the sofa playing games. He had a chance to work and save a lot of money but he was simply too lazy...
I'm scared that he won't find a job soon, that he will stay with us for ages and drive me crazy...

Every-time i'm asking how's the job hunt and everything else he just doesn't give me an answer... Completely ignores my questions...

We have enough on our hands as i is i don't want another family drama, i wish i could say no to him, but i can't he is my brother....

Hi Mrs B,

He said until he saves up some money and can rent somewhere else...

Yeah right. That'll take him a long time (years) besides which how is he going to save any money at all if he is not working currently?. He won't go easily once you get him in your home.

"I told him about the food and everything, said that i'm not going to charge him rent until he finds a job"

In that case he has to do something else like housework, cutting the grass and babysitting if you are not going to charge him for food. Also this guy is going to use your water, your electricity, your computer, the phone; there are all sorts of costs not least of all the invasion of your privacy within your home. All these increased costs are costs you will have to absorb.

Where is this man also going to sleep?. If you also only have one bathroom that could well become an issue too.

"Going to get my DH to speak to him as well he's very rational and doesn't get emotional unlike me"

You also need to speak to your brother, the three of you need to have a full and frank discussion around the table. Anything less than this is a recipe for disaster.

Attila, you can just see them having to buy him out with a deposit and three months' rent to get rid of him, can't you? In fact tbh I can't envisage this ending in any other way, except possibly them moving house in order to get away from him in about 5 years' time!

I am concerned this man has not come up with any leaving date. He should suggest one to you asap, not the other way around.

I am primarily going by the experiences of my ILs here; they did it all wrong with regards to BIL (who actually said the same sorts of things your brother is coming out with) and are they paying the price now!.

He is treating their home like his, these people are not even allowed to go into the kitchen when he is preparing a meal for himself. He also comes and goes at all hours, uses the phone all the time, does no work around the home and hogs the computer. Its the ILs fault too for putting up with him; they do not emerge with any credit at all from this whole sorry saga.

I still think you should say no.

And that's something you CAN do - how is enabling him helping him?

If you're not charging him rent until he gets a job, then where is the impetus TO get a job? Like you say, he had the opportunity to get work last year and couldn't bother his arse to look.

And DH is right, you do need to help family. So help YOUR family out and save your DH and DD the hassle that will inevitably be caused by having DB stay with you long term.

It's going to be a whole lot harder to get rid of him once he's there - what will you do if he doesn't go by the date you've set?

Where does he live at the moment? Why can't he get a job there?

I don't think you are actually helping your brother by letting him stay with you. You are just reinforcing his habit of not taking responsibility for himself and letting everyone around him look after him. You need to help him break this habit now. It will be tough as he has formed this habit over a long period of time, but in the long run, far better to break it now than reinforce it and make it even harder to break at a later stage.

Oh sorry for confusion i'm going to tell him to pay for food, after he gets a job i expect him to pay his way properly.

I am going to speak to him tomorrow cos i know i'll snap any minute today.

What did i get myself into???

Hi Annie,

re your comment:-

"Attila, you can just see them having to buy him out with a deposit and three months' rent to get rid of him, can't you? In fact tbh I can't envisage this ending in any other way, except possibly them moving house in order to get away from him in about 5 years' time!"

Oh yes. Sorry Mrs B but the above is a very real possibility.

He should pay his way properly regardless. Will he not be claiming JSA?

If you think you're going to snap any minute already, please, PLEASE think about how you're going to feel when your brother ignores all the house rules you and DH put in place and you're effectively looking after him in the way you look after your DD. It says a lot if your parents are fed up of paying for him.

"Oh sorry for confusion i'm going to tell him to pay for food, after he gets a job i expect him to pay his way properly"

Mrs B,

I do not mean to get on your case here but how is this favoured one going to pay for food with no job or asset to his name currently?. He could very well not get a job for another year or two yet, besides which his previous employment record is also not good primarily due to his laziness.

You are not going to help him at all by having him in your home. Your Dad enabled him by giving him a job and look at the end result.

The only thing you are guilty of here is not thinking this through properly. You do not also have to enable your brother either; he is 22 and old enough to stand on his own two feet instead of living with his sister and her own family; family that will invariably suffer by having this manchild within their home.

Mrs B

You also wrote the following in your initial post:-

"Last summer he was working for my dad and he was lazy, he wasn't doing any work just lying on the sofa playing games. He had a chance to work and save a lot of money but he was simply too lazy...
I'm scared that he won't find a job soon, that he will stay with us for ages and drive me crazy...

Every-time i'm asking how's the job hunt and everything else he just doesn't give me an answer... Completely ignores my questions..."

All of this would ring loud alarm bells, the last part of your post in particular is very telling as well.

I would also tell him that you expect the house rules to be followed without you having to be on his back about them, otherwise the arrangement is not going to work.

I may add that my sweet DS2 has been job hunting for the last two years. He's no freeloader. He pays what he can towards the household expenses from his JSA, does all the cooking and his share of chores, and is looking forward to paying proper rent when he can. He's done the odd short contract and is doing an office admin course in the hope that it will make him more marketable. But jobs are not easy to come by at present, especially if you haven't completed a degree (he didn't either, though he didn't drop out from non-arsedness). Mr Entitled could spend quite a long time waiting for employment even if he actually does bother to look for it...

do you have an email address for him? If you're worried about being emotional, can you and DH sit down tonight and type out the house rules/costs etc and e-mail it to him before he arrives, so that he knows when he gets here what the deal is? If he doesn't like it, he can't say he wasn't told and he can always leave.

I would say 3 months is more than generous, and a really nice, kind start you're giving him. (I stayed at my DB's for 7 weeks when I first moved to London, I'd arranged to move into a flat share after 5 weeks but had to wait for my new housemate to get back from holiday to be able to move.) It's a reasonable length of time to find a job and find a flat share.

I would say:

"I love you and I'm sorry if this is not what you want to hear, but the more DH and I think about this, the more we think it wont work. You're not earning and we can't afford to cover your costs.

Also we have a young daughter and have just moved into our house; which is finally starting to feel like home. We want to enjoy some family together without house guests."

Just be firm! I would hate to have any relative move in to my house (never mind an unemployed one) - when would DH and I every have any time alone together to chat or shag or argue or just hang out together? I work hard at my job and home is my precious sanctuary where I relax and unwind. Also, trust me, I have had unemployed flatmates before and they are ALWAYS THERE.

I really would say no now, it will be hard but it will be 100 x harder to ask him to keave once he's got his foot in the door.

Jesus...calm down everyone..."be prepared to throw him bodily" out the house??

He's only dropped out of Uni aged 22, not on the run from jail.

Look just be honest and calm, just say "look im sorry but you know you cant stay forever and you are going to have to chip in."

Have an adult conversation not a massive panic.

absolutely - email him the groundrules before he arrives and start as you mean to go on.

If there is damage to your relationship as a result of his stay the fault for that will lie at his door, not yours.

I think the fact he didn't even ask you when he could come but announced he was arriving in a week's time is a rather bad sign. I'm sure he's not deliberately horrible, but he does sound thoughtless. If this arrangement is going to be worthwhile for either of you, doesn't he need to start asking and thinking of you all, rather than assuming?

You don't have to turn into Victorian parents (too late anyway!) just enforce a mindset of 'Actually, I better run that by bubblebum, I am in her house, after all'.

Also, don't do his washing or ironing! He can prepare all but the evening meals he eats with you himself.

Time limit: 3 months, max.

Totally agree with SkaterGrrrrl - I wouldn't let him stay I'm afraid.

It is very difficult to say No - after all he is your brother. But if you don't, your worst fears will be realised and that will damage your relationship anyway.

He will never learn to take the consequences of his actions otherwise. There was no good reason for him to drop out of uni, like ill health, and that in itself is a slap in the face of those who forked out to get him there. If he complains that he has nowhere else to go, you could point out that he should have thought about that before he dropped out.

If he never has to take responsibility for his own actions, he will never learn. You aren't doing him any favours. You owe more to your family than to him.

I don't believe he will stick to your rules for a moment - he hasn't done anything that has been expected of him yet, so why should he start for you?

It will be very hard to say No, but I really think you should.

It sounds like you've made up your mind to let him stay, but for what it's worth I wouldn't let him.

He does sound thoughtless and a bit of a leech - it's commendable you and your DH think it's good to help out family but this goes waaaaaaay beyond help, you're effectively going to be acting like his parents, supporting someone with no income and sounds like no inclination to work. It's easy to say don't pick up after him, don't cook for him, don't do his washing etc but when his muck and mess is cluttering up your house what will you do? Maybe he needs a kick up the backside, but it's not your job to do it, or support him while he finds himself.

And whatever you decide to do, stay calm!

Ahahaha, shortly after I'd typed the above, DS2 got a job offer! The power of Mumsnet can be spooky sometimes

Coolfonz, I was being kind of facetious about the throwing out comment. As I said, I have a DS who dropped out at 22 too and I'm not throwing him anywhere. I'm sure the young feller isn't dangerous or unpleasant, nobody suggested that. However the OP, who obviously knows him a wee bit better than we do, is not at all hopeful that he will be more than an easy-going waste of space and drag on the household's limited resources. They can't be doing with this long-term. They already do plan to have an adult conversation with him. They're just not entirely confident that it will actually have any effect.