Teenage DD wants me to confront XH - How do I?

[pinemartina]

My DD1 is 14 and often lurks on here since she realised how much help and support I have found.
She asked me to post this and we wrote it together.Sorry if long.
Her Dad and I split when she was 2 and her sister 9 months. He decided "family life was not for him" and "wanted to be free".

We kept the house, and he has given me a small amount of money each month since. He is reluctant to spend any more money on his dd's and won't unless heavily pressured.

He has a well paid professional job and a nice house and car.

He has never had another long term relationship and has never introduced the dd's to anyone in his life.He is ,as far as we know,a contented loner.

I remarried when DD1 was 5 and had DS,9 and DD3 ,8.We moved 200 miles away.
DD1's Dad was happy to visit us all once a month for the weekend.He would treat us like a parental home,however,and not contribute or help.He brought washing,slept in late and didn't do much with dd's unless I organised and came too.

When I divorced 2ndH,I had to assert clear boundaries as xh1 assumed he could visit more and for longer.
He hated my new - now x- partner,who put a stop to his visits altogether.
During a split with xp,he tried again,but we had a row when I tried to discuss boundaries and he stopped speaking to me when I got back with xp.

He moved to a city an hours drive away,to see more of dd's,but is often too tired or busy to collect them.When they visit,he takes them to walk round the shops,but wont spend any money.They find it boring in his house as he watches his choice of tv the whole time,whilst also playing loud music and surfing on lap top.
He never asks about school or wants to know when told.Never cuddles or is affectionate.

I had a baby 9 weeks ago and have split with xp for good due to his abuse of me.

DD1's Dad was scornful and unkind about me when he was told I was expecting.
He has refused to acknowledge the baby and wont have dd's mention her to him.He leaves room/hangs up phone if they try to discuss this and has told dd1 she" has no right to speak to him as though she is an adult".

She has avoided visiting him since baby born,making excuses.DD2 has gone alone and listened to him saying mean things about me and her baby sister.

They both now say they no longer want to go and stay.
They have busy social lives here at weekends which they dont want to compromise for a boring weekend.They are hurt,angry nd confused at their Dad's attitude towards their sister.
(He has had dd3 and ds to stay at his before,btw,and is ds's Godfather!)

He has no contact with his own mother who abused him,but sees his father -( who did not bring him up),and has taken the dd's to the Caribbean for a family holiday to meet all his own step-siblings from his fathers 6 ex wives and partners .

If they try to talk about this with him,he says I am trying to stop him seeing them, and talks to dd's in a way that leaves them feeling guilty and duty bound to visit.

DD1 says he is like a big child.

I have worked so hard at maintaining their relationship, am worn out with his nonsense,and insulted by his attitude.

What should I do?

Hmm, I have no advice to offer, but I think that your DD1 is very mature and has a sensible head on her shoulders - she's quite insightful into the nature of her Dad.

`I think your daughter sounds very mature.

To be honest, if she does not want to go somewhere where her father is eitehr being antisocial or spiteful about their sister, I would not force the issue. It seems that you have been making all teh running to maintain their relationship all this time anyway. Your daughters are getting to that age now when they should have a right in what they do. I would support them in this - obviosuly try and make sure you are able to help them logistically when they want to see their dad, but take a bit of a back seat in actually 'organising' their relationship from now on.

She is,thanks.
She realises she can't change him,and does love him and want to see him.
But she feels everything is on his terms,and that she wants to make a stand about baby sister.
She fears that he would not notice if he only saw them once year.
I think he would be sad about that,but would blame me.

It's a horrible sad situation.

My dd is 14 and hasn't seen her father for years - he left me for anotehr woman when dd was 3 months, buggered off for a year, came back and saw her regularly for anotehr year, then buggered off again. Eventually he got married, moved away and stopped seeing her, when she was about 5. No contact since. Apparently it is 'too hard'.

My dd seems pretty sanguine about it, but to be honest it utterly crucifies me that my beautiful daughter has just been disregarded in this way.

It is a horrible situation for you, because of course you want your daughters to have a good relationship with their dad, and as a loving mum you feel responsible for their happines. However their dad swanned off when they were babies because he didn't like the reality of fatherhood, and you were left to pick up the pieces and have shielded them all these years from the reality of his selfishness. Now they are a bit older they can see their father for what he is - childish and only thinking of himself. That must be so hard for your girls, and hard for you to see.

I think you really do need to tell him that it can't all be about him him him. he has two daughters who need a decent dad - someone who makes an effort, does stuff with them, and doesn't slag off their baby sister. And if he can't be bothered to adjust his behaviour, well I wouldn't blame any of you if you told him to stick it, at leats temporarily. And don't feel guilty about it. To be honest as hard as it is sometimes you have to realise that some people do not change, and you either learn to cope with their nonsense, or ease out of their life somewhat.

Your poor girls, though. Some fathers are so useless.

Hey PM, it's JB here.

Firstly, and fwiw, having met your gorgeous dd's your dd1 is very mature for her age and it is very big of her to want to 'fix' the relationship.
I don't really have any brilliant insightful suggestions, I don't speak to my father as anything I said would get thrown back at me.

I think the best course of action might be a letter, so that he can read it in his own time, without DD being interrupted, argued with etc so she can get her points across in a measured manner.
MOst improtantly she needs to remember that she is the child in this and he is the adult, none of this is a reflection on her, he is her father and as such shoudl be making her feel safe, secure and loved, if he is not achieving these things then that is his fault, not hers.
xx

Its not really about what you should do is it? this is more about what your daughters should do...you have clearly done all you can and now its getting to the stage where its more about how they are to manage their relationship with their father, rather than you doing it for them, I think anyway.

I agree, your daughter is clearly an intelligent and mature girl and a letter from her and her sister might be the best approach. She can explain that these are their own thoughts and if he chooses not to believe that, well there's not much anyone can do about it. But it will be there in black and white in front of him. You can bring a horse to water, as they say...

If they want to be loyal to you and their baby sister then they should not be forced to visit him. Your DD is old enough to set her terms for the relationship too, and not just be forced to accept his entirely.

Perhaps if things become difficult and they do not wish to go and stay for a time, they could write to him, keeping the lines of communication open, for perhaps a future time when he might be prepared to meet them as equals?

Thank you all.
We have read through your suggestions together.
DD says she finds it reassuring that everyone is saying very similar things.

We talked a lot about what she might say in a letter and wrote down some of it,but she has decided that she does not want to send it to him.

We agree that it is up to them to negotiate the relationship now.DD feels ok that some of her choices about how to do this may be different from mine and that this is fine with me too.

She does not want to have a big discussion with him ,or to send a letter,and has decided to continue to make her excuses for the time being.
She has told him that she is unhappy with his attitude towards her sister and feels that he should be the one to start off a chat about it.
He told her he missed her and she made it clear why she wasn't coming.

I really admire the calm way she is able to deal with this.She is impressively assertive with him over the phone ,and doesn't engage with any emotional manipulation.

I still cannot behave in this way with my own parents!!!

Ultimately, he has demonstrated that he is less mature than his dd's.They are sad about this,but actually I realise that my own feelings have got involved too ,and I have to let go and keep out -

• I can't protect them from their fathers' failings,nor can I fix or manage their relationship with him.

However,I can see that they are doing really well with this now,and posting here and discussing your responses has really helped us to look at this together.
Thanks!

You sound like you have a great relationship and you've obviously raised a bright, thoughtful, strong young woman. I hope you're patting yourself on the back on a regular basis .

Well done for letting your daughter deal with her father.
My ex left me and my girls when they were young to live in USA with the other woman. I have supported mine to go and visit although it hurt me at the time.
But now they both know the reality of their father and have decided on their own relationship with him.If I had interfered then they would probably have him as some great fantasy figure and I would have benn the bad guy.

your daughter sounds lovely and a credit to you and how you have raised her

i agree with everyone else, you have done all you can to keep the contact going, sometimes however there comes a time when you have done all you can and it cannot be forced

your children are getting older and will be realising his failings, and start choosing if they want to continue contact with him, and it sounds as though this is now the case

i would not make them go if they dont want to, i know it is frustrating that he will not be the father he should be to them, but it will be him who loses out not your children

i have the same situation, though a bit further down the line

dd1 is 18 and rarely chooses to see her father, and whilst the other 3 do at times ask to see him, it isnt often

he went 14m once without seeing them, ds2 once said he couldnt remember what he looked like!

last september he moved closer to us, allegedly to be able to see the children more often, but it was me who had to instigate the contact, and it lasted only a matter of weeks before he started making excuses to reduce contact, culminating in him saying in front of my boys that if he had to make effort to see them (instead of me always taking them to him) then he didnt want to see them

now he only sees them when they ask, he rarely calls unless i remind him and always has an excuse (such as he thought it was better to wait for them to ask to see him or call, not thinking how it must feel to them that he never makes effort), and often switches off his mobile and unplugs his landline phone, so even if they want to they cant get hold of him

they are now all old enough to see his flaws (my youngest is 9), and i have decided to now leave it to them to tell me if they want to see him, rather than covering for him and prompting him to get in touch, because in the long run it will be better for them and enable them to make their own choices

you should pat yourself on the back for doing so well and having such well adjusted and mature kids

i truly believe this kind of intermittent and erratic contact is the most disruptive to children, rather than regular contact or none at all, so if your kids want to opt out i would let them

You are all (and dd2) quite brilliant, as mothers. daughters, and confident young women.

My only advice would be that at 14, having a social life is probably the highest priority of a teenager.

you and I know it is highly likely that you DD will feel differently once she gets older, so I would advise she keeps some sort of contact, even if just phone calls and the odd visit, as it will be quite hard later down the line to get him back if no contact is made for several years.

also I would disagree with a couple of points in the above posts, 9 years old is not old enough for them to say if they want to visit or not.

14 yes, 9 not at all.

I do see your point Aeschylus, but the children aer 14 and under, and imo, mature as they are, are still children, and if they want ot be protected from negative comments/behaviour then PM is quite right in helping them with that.
The onus shouldn't be on the children to retain contact, it should be on their father.

i think 9 is definitely old enough to decide if they want to see someone or not

In Lauren Bacall's autobiogrpahy she recounts how her son confronted his father (Jason Robards) about being a neglectful father. She relates the father was completely flummoxed and somewhat ashamed.

Sometimes parents need to be challenged by their children, and perhaps your DD needs to do it, not you, her. This way she can take some control and he can realise his daughter isn't some remote conceptual thing, but a person who can and will make judgements on his behaviour.

@ lou33

so if you had/have a 9 year old and they said to you, I no longer wish to attend school, you would agree I presume then, as obviously they are mature enough to make their own decisions!

What about if they said I no longer wish to see you! I presume you would find them somewhere else to live then!

Family visits are non-optional at 9 IMO, unless there is some actual reason for stopping them.

I am not a legal expert but I would expect any Judge in the land to tear you a neww ass if you actually said to them my 9 year old decided they no longer wanted to visit his father! so I let them

if they were unhappy at school and they showed me reason why , then i would remove them myself and home ed, just like i have with dd2

similarly i take into account their wishes about seeing their father, i dont think forcing contact is going to do any good, it is about what is best for the child, and sometimes the absent parent is a negative influence on them

9 yr olds are certainly old enough to express their wishes on matters such as contact

Your poor DDs.

I echo what other posters have said: your DD1 sounds very level-headed and while it may be breaking her heart, she may have made up her mind and good for her. No-one should have to put themselves into a position of vulnerability at the hands of a supposed loved one.
best thing you can do is affirm and re-affirm that you support her decision whatever it may be and you will be there for her.

I'm 11 years older than your DD1 and my parents have recently seperated. Even though I am a mum myself, my mum just will not stop trying to get me to open my house to my dad: the man who never rings me and didnt leave me a forwarding address when he moved. So believe me when I say I feel terrible for your DD in this position, but gratified for her that you seem to be thinking of her, not him. Just keep doing that.