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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I've decided I no longer expect fidelity in a relationship

46 replies

secunda · 13/06/2010 23:28

Bit sad I suppose, but my experience of men overall has added up to the conclusion that only a small minority are faithful (as in forever and ever faithful). I have been hit on by probably about 10 men who were supposed to be happily attached/married but who really weren't, some quite forcefully, and been cheated on a couple of times (although tbh I wasn't bothered as wasn't that into him). It just seems that after a certain period of time in a relationship (marriage, really), it's almost inevitable, and that the ideal of complete fidelity and truthfulness that's held up as the norm today is just naive and unrealistic. Not saying that I wouldn't chuck someone if they were running an entire parallel relationship alongside me, but if it was just a shag I would try not to let it bother me.

Is this a sensible attitude or is just going to make me sad in the end?

OP posts:
mjinhiding · 14/06/2010 00:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

secunda · 14/06/2010 00:31

Who was it who said 'infidelity in men is as common as rain, and of as little consequence'? I think it was someone from the eighteenth century, a woman. Think she was right.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 14/06/2010 00:49

Not sure she was right...... There are consequences alright!! STD, pregnancies.....dc in the middle

secunda · 14/06/2010 00:54

dc don't need to be affected if you don't split up over it. STDs, yes. That would be worse than just cheating as it would be putting my health in danger

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 14/06/2010 01:02

AF: I know plenty of people who are happily monogamous, but plenty more who do seem to spend all their time flapping and snooping and whining at their partners. The mistake a lot of people make is in assuming that monogamy is a) going to happen in a relationship without even asking about it and b) thinking that anyone who doesn't offer or want it is a Bad Person.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/06/2010 02:49

Is that really true SGB, that you know more people who flap and whine and snoop than you know people who are happy and trusting in their monogamous relationships? It's the opposite for me. I know far more people who don't worry about infidelity at all, apart from on MN of course, where we're more likely to encounter the fearful and worried.

Secunda, I would echo the advice about don't set your bar so low. There are lots of people who won't cheat, but I do think couples should have a conversation about fidelity and monogamy and outline their expectations, rather than as SGB suggests, assuming fidelity - even in a marriage, where perhaps it is explicit.

However, I do think realism has to set in about how someone might feel after being in a long relationship that is ticking along just fine - and someone comes along and declares their attraction. It can be a very heady experience and IME, people always under-estimate how intoxicating it can be feeling desired and wanted with such intensity after such a long time. It is in this area that I think there is more potential for infidelity these days, as well as friendships that cross the line.

I also think that social networking sites increase the likelihood that old flames will get in touch and I see a marked increase in doomed affairs between people convinced that they were eachother's long lost soul mate, conveniently forgetting that the relationship failed first time round for perfectly valid reasons.

I think the relationships at the greatest risk are the ones where no realistic conversations take place about how one or both of the parties will respond to a sure-fire opportunity, where there is minimal risk of discovery. I'm somewhat cynical about the 35% who haven't cheated I'm afraid, because I think that a fair proportion of those people have simply never had the opportunity, or it was just too risky, so their fidelity hasn't been tested in a meaningful way.

However, I absolutely believe that there is a percentage of people of both sexes who would never cheat, regardless of opportunity or even if their marriages are not blissfully happy. Their reasons for not cheating are usually about a myriad of factors; their love and respect, their commitment to their marriage and/or the children - and their moral code.

There's an interesting interview in the Not Just Friends book where a man explains that on good days, he is committed to his wife, on average days he is committed to his marriage/family and on bad days, he is committed to his commitment.

I have concluded that the common denominator in terms of personality traits amongst all the non-cheaters is unselfishness. This is not to be confused however with low self esteem, because often the people with the highest self-esteem are also the most unselfish of individuals.

My bar is set very high and having gone through the pain of infidelity once, I would never forgive infidelity in any form again. There are no secret bargains about what would be forgiveable or acceptable, it is explicit and non-negotiable. Our boundaries about what is acceptable are crystal clear and shared by us both. It wasn't always so - and contrary to what one might expect in the aftermath of an affair, we both feel much safer and secure now that those boundaries are so clear and the fortress around our marriage, this strong and impenetrable.

So I would say, have high expectations, choose a partner who is on the whole unselfish but with high self-esteem (and therefore less vulnerable to an ego-stroke) - and be realistic about how you will both deal with possible tempations. Be clear from the outset what behaviour is acceptable and what would cause you discomfort. Never assume what your partner might do if offered an opportunity and don't feel scared about admitting your vulnerability - don't pretend to be "cool" with threats that make you feel uneasy.

Infidelity is not inevitable at all, but it is as you say, too commonplace as to make it absurd to cross one's fingers and hope it will never happen.

poodie · 14/06/2010 08:19

I would be more jealous of my partner having a very close female friend who he got on very well with than someone who he wanted to sleep with. In fact, I don't think I would be that bothered if he had a primarily sexual relationship with someone else. A very good, close female friend who he adored - that would make me jealous even if they never laid a finger on each other!

I think people are quite unrealistic about long term relationships, expecting to them to tick every box.

Also I find men with a slightly roving eye more attractive than men who would never, ever even contemplate doing anything naughty. I would find that a bit boring to be honest. I like the slight edge of not quite knowing 100%.

HerBeatitude · 14/06/2010 09:02

"dc don't need to be affected if you don't split up over it"

Sorry but I just have to challenge this notion that as long as you don't break up, children aren't affected by bad things in a relationship.

If you are unhappy, resentful, angry, heartbroken, you can stay as married as you want but your DC's will pick up on it and be affected by it and learn what to expect from their own relationships from it.

Please don't assume that staying together is some kind of magic spell against your DC's not being adversely affected by problems in a relationship. It isn't. DC's whose parents have a major relationship problem, are affected by that whether or not their parents split. Don't kid yourself they're not. That's true whether the problem is infidelity or anything else.

Alltheywantisahole · 14/06/2010 09:52

My experience of men and relationships is really quite negative but its only in the last year or so that when I have evaluated the last 25 years of my life (going back until I men was 13) I realised how many shit selfish people there are out there.

I have never been the jealous type and lived my life with attitude - there is no point worrying about what MAY or MAY NOT happen. Even so when I now look back at my past its like waking up with a slap across the face because in my experience men (and yes I know woment cheat too) just want what they cannot have or perhaps just a different fanjo or pair of tits from their usual.

My life goes like this
Age 13 - friends Dad makes a pass on a sleepover. He is suggestive for the following 18 months despite being married.

Age 15 - A married youth leader makes suggestions, blatently flirts and makes it obvious its there if I want it.

Age 17 - In full time work. 2 married men flirt outragously, make passes etc. These men were deffo "up for it" had I been obliging!!

Age 18 - Working in a pub ontop of my fulltime job on Saturday afternoons - Most of the local football team (married,engaged) firt and make passes to me and local single girls in the pub. They were up for shagging anyone. I saw it happen with most of them more than once.

Age 20 - met a guy. dated hom for 3 months until his pregnant fiance turned up on my doorstep with a slap for me.

Age 22 - Another boyfriend - this one with a wife (found out after 6 weeks and dumped him).

Age 24 - Met the man of my dreams. After almost a year turns out he is living a double life. He has a wife 400 miles away up north

Age 25 - walk in a friends (married)Dad shagging a woman from down the road

Age 30 Get married. 6 days later in honeymoon discover I have crabs. Lots of denial. I stupidly blank it as I have inability to deal with it just days after my wedding. Stupidly bury head in the sand and hope for the best.
3 years later - discover 5 years deception and that he had cheated on me numerous sexual partners.

So CBA with men atm and not missing them at all. Quite happy with my life as it is for now. But if I ever meet a man again. I know I will not expect to be his exclusive partner in life in the long run and nor will I expect the relationship to last.

In nutshell _ I just dont think ALOT of people can be faithful. I have a negative attitude to men most of the time these days. Dont get me wrong I am completely able to be around and interact on a platonic level with them but I just view all men with a suspicious and almost un caring eye. Every man I meet I wonder how many affairs/ secret shags they have had. Warped and wrong I know. It does not consume me with bitterness. The only way I can describe it is - like a sort of acceptance that - that is just the way it is. I am not sad about it but refuse to sucked in again.

As my name suggests - that is my opinion of 99% of men!

shimmerysilverglitter · 14/06/2010 10:14

I agree with the OP, I don't think it can be expected.

However, I want fidelity so instead would rather not be in any kind of relationship as I just don't think it is possible apart from a very few exceptions and I think those men have been taken by MNetters!

I don't know anyone who has been 100% faithful, not one couple, one or both have messed around at some time or another. I honestly don't think it is possible.

I must admit though I was pretty clinical about it when I found out it was being done extensively to me. I basically switched off from it, I had 2 dc, didn't have to work because ex h earned enough so I could stay home with them. I weighed up what really mattered to me. It was when it became totally in my face that I had to end the relationship but even then there was a lot of other stuff as well EA and sometimes physical. I do believe that chronic unfaithfulness is a form of a abuse, letting the other person know they mean absolutely nothing to you.

Flighttattendant · 14/06/2010 10:51

i think where I stand on this is that I'd probably not be certain a relationship was worth keeping if the other person was putting more into their relationship with someone else.

however I countenance this scenario as fairly probable in any given relationship I am likely to have - that eventually we might develop in ourselves enough to want to move forwards perhaps with someone different.

That's Ok. It's the current relationship and how it functions that's important and if that is good, then there's no reason to worry about how it might turn out in the future. You can't plan for that.

I would find it hard to pledge my future self to someone, because I might change my mind, and so might they - but for the time being, yes, certainly.

I hate the concept of cheating and the deceit and pain involved, not just pain for the cheatee but for the cheater because they desperately want to be with the person they are thinking about, but feel unable to as it would hurt their partner.

In these situations honesty has to prevail.
I don't think I could be with someone who expected I would always, always love and want them above all others, and that I would cut off my own desires and changing needs in order to keep this promise.

I suppose this is serial monogamy I'm describing. But maybe I have just not met the right person yet.

Flighttattendant · 14/06/2010 10:56

Actually, I can imagine always loving and wanting one person but he left when ds was small. Maybe I just feel as though nobody can ever replace him?

It was odd as I loved him despite having lost some of my respect for him. I lost respect for the behaviour I suppose rather than for the man.

Love is a very strange thing. I know acknowledge though that he probably didn't love me, or couldn't, or something like that.

But I think had he been able to stay, I would never have given up on him. I would have been prepared to compromise nearly everything I had or felt in order to stay with him for ever.

See now I have entirely contradicted my first post

sorry about that!

bathbuns · 14/06/2010 11:31

Alltheywan that is a really sad list. What a lot of wankers you've had the misfortune to meet.

shimmerysilverglitter · 14/06/2010 13:08

Well sadly I don't think that list is that shocking, I could probably write something similar and so could many people I know. I think committed men are the exception rather than the rule.

Alltheywantisahole · 29/08/2011 19:41

Well I could a few more tossers to my list since then, but like I said, I no longer expect a man to be honest or truthful.

I think if you are a woman of a certain age dating these days - assume any man you meet is just after extra marital sex, a change from his usual!

Its all about what they cant have! Like I said before they just want a different fanny and tits to their usual!

AKissIsNotAContract · 29/08/2011 20:35

'dc don't need to be affected if you don't split up over it'

I disagree with this. I was seriously affected by my dad's infidelity growing up. My parents didn't spllit up till I was 18 and my dad started cheating when my mum was pregnant with me. Just because they stayed together doesn't mean I didn't know what was going on and feel affected by it.

Bogeyface · 29/08/2011 20:41

I have had several experiences over the years that led me to believe that men would cheat if they could. But still I trusted DH and boy what a mistake that was!

So no, I dont expect faithfullness either, and tbh this post almost echoes my thread about being treated badly makes you cynical. I dont believe that there is a single relationship anywhere where one partner or the other hasnt done something they shouldnt, be it either emotional or physical.

FagAshLill · 29/08/2011 20:41

I wont stand for it.

I have enough trust issues as it is, for someone to know this and either have an affair or even a one night stand would take all the trust I have built up in them away.

I will try to forgive and forget, but I know what I'm like. I wont be able to and end up being miserable.

Life is hard enough without bringing such low expectaions and standards into it.

Toadinthehole · 30/08/2011 07:44

I hate to add some extra gloom but it is likely that women also tend to be more unfaithful than is generally thought.

Some years ago, the British Medical Journal published some medical research with the very unexpected yet interesting finding that approximately 20% of children's biological fathers were not the individuals the children thought they were.

exoticfruits · 30/08/2011 08:12

It depends what you want.
I put trust and loyalty top. I give it and expect it back.
I don't think that all men cheat and I wouldn't stay with one who did.

wotabouttheworkers · 30/08/2011 22:09

Taking a long, hard look at myself and then at the great many beautiful, amusing and intelligent young women that are everywhere, I really would not expect any guy to be faithful to me...

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