Finances after divorce....H feels our original agreement is unfair...

[SpiritualKnot]

Hi, divorcing H for his infidelity after nearly 20 years, We have 2 kids. Thought all was going ok money wise. Then he rang up and said I was leaving him with nothing. I'm increasing the mortgage by £20,000 to pay him off, so he can put down a deposit on his own place and he's giving me maintenance money (worked out from the CSA website) for the youngest child (aged 11 yrs).

He says this is not good as he's paying off the £20,000 I'm giving him through the maintenance payments. Why should he have nothing etc etc.? Why should he have to pay maintenance?

He's still waiting for the decree nisi and the solicitor previously said we wait for that before we work out the legal financial stuff.

Do we legally have to wait for the decree nisi for me to sit down with the soliciotr to work things out? Don't want to make an appointment with the solicitor at £100 an hour for her to say we can't draft anything until the decree nisi.

He went on and on about this and then when I brought it up the next day, he starts going on about how money is so important to me...but there's 3 of us (2 kids and me) and only one of him, so I have to look after us financially, he has his OW who could surely contribute to any new place they want to get....he denies this is going to happen though.

He left me for OW and now says I have it all, the house (equity about £80,000) and the kids, but he had the affair, he left me, it was his choice. Our eldest is off to Uni in October, so H says I could get a smaller house for me and dd, but ds still needs somewhere to stay when he comes back from Uni, I'm not asking for any financial help for my ds. I couldn't afford to stay here without any contribution via child maintenance.

I earn more than my H, but I'm at the max salary for my job now whereas he's still going up the ladder, he's younger than me. I've always paid the mortgage, though this isn't relavent as he paid for some food and some work to the house.

What a pain, but as I said, sorry veered off there, does the decree nisi have to come through before things can be formally set up financially? Initially he was ok with the arrangment, but now with time his guilt has lessened considerably and he feels unfairly treated, the sooner sorted the better.

SK

Pffffft.

He has to pay maintenance because it's his child, the twat. He's not paying back the lump sum to you, he's paying a proportion of his salary. The lump sum isn't his everything, it's just his deposit.

I'm not a family lawyer but I don't think you need the decree to work out the finances, no, not at all. A lot of couples stay separated for years before formalising their divorce, and financial arrangements are worked out in the meantime.

He has to pay maintenance because it's his child. In fact if the older one is his, then he should also be paying half the costs of university as well.

He's not paying back the 20,000 in maintenance payments, the maintenance payments are to feed, clothe and otherwise provide for HIS child. Has he had nothing to do with the family finances over the last 20 years? Doesn't he know what it costs to raise a child.

You can work out the family finances at any time but I think you need the authority of the court to force him to pay up if he doesn't want to co-operate.

I think he's just realised what life will be like without your salary propping him up.

Thanks for the replies, think I'll make an appointment to see the solicitor then?

He really hasn't a clue about what things cost. He earns enough to get himself a nice place. He bought my dd some clothes once when we were still together and often says " I spent £100 on clothes for her once"...like she'd been running around naked before that.

He put down the original £30,000 deposit on this house when we bought it, from an inheritance and I think that's what he'd like back, but I couldn't afford to remortgage for that amount.

SK

So he put down the deposit & you paid the mortgage. He put down £30,000 and is getting £20,000 back. So he's paid £10,000 to live in a nice house for how long?

Thinking about it, the point of leaving sorting the finances between arguing couples until the decree nisi is through, is that circumstances change. You might pay the solicitors fees today then your or his job changes and everything has to be renegotiated.

Good luck with your new life. You sound well rid of him.

I think - but do check with your solicitor - that the finance order doesn't get made till after the decree nisi (ours wasn't signed until a couple of months after the absolute), but there is nothing to stop you working out an agreement before that. It makes sense to have a settlement worked out in advance, so you can present a joint financial proposal for rubber-stamping by the court. A legal wrangle will cost a whole lot and there will be precious little left of your £80,000 equity by the end of it.

As I understand it, the court will not consider whose fault it was except in extreme circumstances, but will divvy up finances on the basis of need, with the children a priority (don't think this includes over 18s though). So his infidelity is irrelevant. However they do take into account assets/income of any new partners because this affects need, so if he's moving in with someone else he will be required to declare it and she will need to make full financial disclosure too.

He's denying that he will be getting a place with the OW and I think this is why. Am I right in thinking they won't consider her income unless they are getting a place together?

Will the courts feel what we have worked out is okay, if we have agreed it between ourselves, or will they say "hang on this doesn't look right go and work out how he can have a better deal?"

We weren't planning on filling out the long forms, just agreeing what would work for us. He hates filling out forms, I've always done that sort of thing, want to avoid all that if we can.

SK

Although you earn more than him now did you have time off raising the children when they were younger whilst he was working? If so I think you can claim part of his pension pot.
If that is the case and you don't want that hassle perhaps you can offer to waive it and that might make him see your current offer as more reasonable?

Going through something similar.

My understanding from my solicitor is that the court won't automatically rubber stamp an agreement you've come up with between you - they will look first at the needs of any children then ensure the settlement is fair to both of you.

My solicitor is brilliant. She pointed out that the more we argue, the more she's going to get paid and the less we'll get to keep. We're not divorcing immediately but I do want a separation agreement because he's useless with money.

I also put down the deposit on our first place from the proceeds of the sale of my flat, plus 10k later that I inherited, but the solicitor says it's irrelevant because it was so long ago.

We're doing pension offset - his pension pot is about £100k and as he's not far off retirement he's keeping that and I'm having a bigger share of the equity (we're having to sell the house). We have two teenagers and we're looking at a split of about 60/40.

He also hates paperwork so is being less than co-operative about the whole thing.

Good luck.

You can start negotiations over finances at any time but you won't get them into any form of court order until after the decree nisi.

Whether he likes it or not, you are both going to have to make a full financial declaration. If either of you doesn't do so it is possible for the other party to get the financial agreement changed later.

If you both make full disclosures, both have legal advice, agree the finances between you and get your solicitors to draw up a consent order it would be unusual for the courts to question that. As TheFutureMrsClooney says, they will check that the needs of the children are adequately met and that the settlement is not blatantly unfair, but the presumption is in favour of accepting the agreement.

The only thing that matters with the finances is coming up with a fair split. Who is to blame for the collapse of your marriage doesn't enter into it.

His new partner's income is not part of the calculations for child maintenance. However it may affect the financial split. For example, if there was any possibility of you paying him maintenance or paying him a lump sum in lieu of maintenance, that would be affected by him cohabiting. In your situation I would consider what is a fair split of the assets ignoring what might happen between him and her.

You should make every effort to get this sorted out between you without going to court. A court battle could easily make a sizeable dent into your assets. Giving him a little bit more than you think he should have may be a bargain in comparison. I'm not saying you should be a doormat, just that you should be flexible and try to arrive at an agreement that both of you are reasonably happy with.

Could I just add (as gently as possible), as pissed off as you are with him (and I can certainly sympathise with that feeling), the sooner you get this sorted, the sooner you can get him out of your head and on with your life. It's a very liberating feeling!

I'm not suggesting he should walk all over you - you are at least in the position of understanding the finances.

My solicitor also said that unless behaviour has been really bad (and not "just" adultery), it isn't relevant to the finances.

I'm actually DH's second wife. Although I didn't meet him until after they'd split and I ended up bringing up her son, she hasn't spoken to me in 27 years. A great shame because it's made her son's life much harder.

The courts are not interested in apportioning blame (especially in the case of something as commonplace as infidelity), and they ignore fault in the separation of the assets. Generally in England and Wales, the assumption is a 50/50 split of all assets, except where children are involved; in the latter case it will depend on who has primary residency.

You are right to think that the financial settlement can be affected if he is going to be living with his new partner, but it will be hard to prove and probably not worth pursuing.

The worst thing you can possibly do is fight about it, as that merely enriches your solicitors at your expense.

Child maintenance it compeltely seperate from the divorce settlement.

Just because the marriage ends does not mean either parents repsonsiblity towards the children of the family ceases. The resident parent will be undertaking the bulk of the financial repsonsibility towards the children of the family anyway ime.

I would most certainly not waive child maintenance, is the child to be bought up on love and air alone?

"I would most certainly not waive child maintenance, is the child to be bought up on love and air alone?"

No-one even remotely suggested this!

Beanlet I was referring to the op.

If her H is complaining that the child maintenance payments make his financial settlement meaningless, what exactly is he requesting instead.

Besides child maintenance payments decrease in line with over night contact and if he has other children.

I've divorced, and I did get the former marital home as I have two young children to bring up, ex does have to pay child maintenance, altho similar to the op ex actually coplained about in court. To which the judge replied that the repsonsibilities towards the child do not cease with the end of a marriage, and also the finance hearing had nothin to do with child maintenance.

Spiritualknot, be aware the grounds for divorce will not affect the financial outcome of your divorce one bit, the courts tend to look at it as a matter of need, you have two children to care for, in this case I think it is common that your husband will be awarded a percentage of equity of the house, I actually think the amount you worked out would be what the courts would think is reasonable 25%.

Thanks for all the messages-most helpful. I'm seeing the solicitor on Monday and will see what she says. Know her mum very well, so she's trying to help as much as possible.

Don't want to be too awful about my ex but he has become dependant on my salary I think and don't think he accepts that. He doesn't realise he can get by without it. He's just got back today from a few days away and said he spent £160 on clothes for himself....Few Tshirts and shorts, mad.

SK

Errm, if your older child is under 21 and in full time education (ie off to uni) then he should be paying maintenace for him as well surely?

I asked about my 18 yr old and the solicitor said they don't qualify for any maintenance after 18? One good thing is that my ds now gets the full loan.

If we'd not split, we would have had to finance some ourselves probably, but they don't takes H's salary into consideration now....you need a solicitr's letter to prove the separation. I would have had to finance myself as H wouldn't have contributed.

I think H feels he should have more as he says he's bad with money whereas I'm "very savvy" with it, whatever that means. I feel this is true, If I had less I would get a lodger in for example. But I am trying to give the kids some stability and don't really want to make lots of changes to their lives if I can help it.

Looking at what prh47 said. When we were being reasonable about this,he cashed in a life assurance policy he'd been paying £15 a month into for about 16 years, in joint names and we divided it 50:50, got around £2500 each. He brings that up and says how that was his money really and look how fair he was with it. Thinking as part of the settlement I could give him that back maybe, to increase the amount he gets. Would rather that than have it all go legal.

My biggest fear is that he will somehow be able to access the children's savings (about £6000, that I've put into accounts in their names, or that I end up having to pay him some sort of maintenance to keep him in the "style to which he has become accustomed".

SK

He hasn't been to see a solicitor, I know if he did they would want him to try and get more. We plan to split the costs of the one I'm using. That's why I'd like it to be fair, otherwise I'll have to pay all the bill for this one and he'd have the costs from the other.

Utimately though, what would be the fairest would be for me to sell this house now and split the profits for it 60:40. But I don't want to move out and that would mean he waits until my daughter is 17/18 before I sell, which would mean me paying the mortgage myself for another 7 years and splitting the profits at that time 50:50, but he wouldn't have the deposit for another house in the meantime.

Re: mediation, we may use that if we can't agree, will ask the solicitor about that when I see her...or will they advise against it, coz they lose money that way maybe?

SK

Spiritual, sadly getting divorced is expensive when you have dependent children and property in common. From what you have said you definitely need to get some good proper legal advice as neither you or your DH seem to really know much about how financial settlements work and if you don't get it right the courts will throw it out when you apply to have the financial settlement agreed. And there is absolutely no need to wait for decree nisi to start financial discussions - that's just nonsense.

For example, when you are in a 'long marriage' (ie got children, been married long enough that most of your assets have been accrued since the marriage) ALL assets (like that life assurance) belong equally to the two of you, whoever paid in to them. They are the property of the marriage. And have you considered your pensions?

Get thee to that solicitor quick as a first step. Gather a statement of all your assets (including rough house value and mortgage), his income, your income, pensions, anything else relevant so there is no timewasting.