Husband has left - am I being too nice for the sake of the kids?

[Tooblue2smurf]

Hi all. Newbie post so apologies for the length!

DH announced two weeks ago that he thought we should break up because we had drifted apart and he felt something was missing, although he didn't know what it was. We talked for a couple of hours and he agreed to try and work on it until the end of the year. A week later he was hiding his FB page so, when he put the DC to bed, I had a look and found some messages from another woman. Told him that I knew about her. He told me they had done nothing but talk and he then said he thought it was futile to work on things as he couldn't see it happening.

He has moved to his mum's, in the sense that he's sleeping there and has a few clothes, but generally he is still a very large presence in the house. I have seen him nearly every day since as he comes around to spend time with DC. Although I was obviously very shocked and upset by all this to start with, I made a conscious decision to turn this into a positive experience and looked at how this would help everyone and how my life would improve.

I have moved things around in the house to give him the smallest room and putting anything that belongs to him in it to 'clear' the house for my sanity. I've even put the sofabed in there and told him he can stay over whenever he would like so that he can see the DC in the morning as well (there is no room for them to sleep over at MIL's). He has been for tea and we've had a little bit of fun with water fights in the garden. Although he hasn't actually said it, he has acknowledged that he is seeing the OW and is agreed that DC will not meet her. It means we're fairly stuck in this situation for the time being.

My problem is that I do still love him the same as always and have never considered our relationship to be unfixable. In fact I thought our problems were the norm with small children, when you put 'us' to one side until they need less attention (communication and intimacy being the main areas). He told me we were just behaving like friends so I'm treating him the same as I ever did. He still tells me he loves me sometimes but is adamant he will not be coming back. I just wonder if this arrangement is going to work or will it bite me in the a$$?

Has anyone else gone through a similar thing and found it has helped the children rather than confusing them? Oldest isn't quite 4 yet. I feel like I'm being so accommodating for his needs but I'm not the kind of person who can be unpleasant without suffering extreme guilt afterwards. There are occasions where I feel like I'm being a doormat and allowing him too much freedom. Then I just see my other options and can't imagine doing that to my DC.
Generally what he has is an open door policy to visit DC whenever he wants (which is most evenings); freedom to do what he wants (which is very much like when we were still together); a bed if he wants to sleep here and me treating him with the same care and affection that I was before (although not that affectionate ).

Any and all comments, opinions or advice would be more than welcomed.

Yes, it will bite you in the A$$$$$ and in the heart big time. I'm for the ripping off the plaster approach, which hurts a lot in the short term but in the long run it clears the air and clears your mind and heart quicker.

You don't seem to have much anger yet about your H and his lies and essentially his betrayal of you and your children you sound remarkably neutral, not even too sad at all that has happened. Anger and sadness are necessary here don't be afraid of feeling them.

"Generally what he has is an open door policy to visit DC whenever he wants (which is most evenings); freedom to do what he wants (which is very much like when we were still together); a bed if he wants to sleep here and me treating him with the same care and affection that I was before ..." He has his cake and he is eating it right now. It will confuse the children over time, and you will end up resenting him more and more, and the children will suffer. That little voice that is whispering to you that you are a doormat will get louder and louder -- please listen to it right now, because that's your inner voice telling you the truth; hopefully it will be the beginning of healthy boundary-setting on your part.

Please be assertive with him about what you really want here. Clearing the house for the sake of your sanity is hugely important. You need to give him set times when he can come and see the children and then leave, and no more allowing him to sleep over since it's a bit crowded at his mum's (he will soon be sleeping at the OW's, if he's not now).

Listen to him when he says he will not be coming back. It is over. It's hard to shut the door on all of the hopes and it's gut wrenching to see your young family going through this, but you must start thinking in terms of Me, not We. You are not really the one who decided to do this to the family either -- this is his decision and his doing; little consolation to you or to the children, but he has made his bed and now you need to allow him to go and lie in it, and deal with the fallout with the children and yourself. xxxx

Welcome to MN!

Good post math.

I agree with giving him set times, giving him boundaries. This will work for the DCs too.

Let him arrange sleepovers, ie, can I stay next Sat night. As one day you might be having company yourself and not need him barging in.

Don't let guilt get in the way of ripping into him occaisionally.

If you keep making life so easy for him why wouldn't he keep taking full advantage.

Good luck, you sound strong

My post will not be as eloquent as the first --

I tried this when I split from my partner but I have to be honest it ended in tears mostly mine!!

He started turning up whenever he wanted at all hours of the day and not turning up when he said he would because he knew he could come and go as he pleased

He needs to miss you, IMHO at the moment he is having his cake and eating it He can see this OW when he likes and still see his wife and kids

Start now as you mean to go on this cant be a long term solution

Yes, if you have any chance of rekindling your marriage, then boundaries are going to be essential if he is to be trained to be a better partner to you in the future. If he ever decides to come back with his tail between his legs, the relationship will be a completely new and different one.

Better to start now with the boundaries and get him used to things being dictated by you, or at least negotiated respectfully, a schedule, whether the OW is going to meet the DCs, who pays for what (child support, mortgage, etc.) stated in the open and not silently agreed (or not agreed) upon, so that whether you formally separate or eventually get back together, you will be operating from a position of strength (which you need to do).

He needs to start thinking of practicalities in the areas of money, schedules, and where he lives and how this will work out wrt times he can spend with the children. In other words, he needs to do things in a grown up way, and you need to stop letting him off the hook in this regard. So his mum's is too cramped for the DCs to go and spend time with him there -- tough. He needs to get a flat sorted for himself if he's going to spend time being a daddy to the DCs in that case. The two of you need to sit down together and plan how you're going to tell the children what's going on and commit to helping them through this, respecting each other, and respecting the children, and answering questions in a way that is honest and age-appropriate for them. Your H will need to face his children's questions.

Since there is an OW and since he seems adamant that he is casting his lot with her, starting as you will need to go on is healthier. BTW, have you had std tests yet? Don't mean to stun you, but if your H has been sleeping with both of you, you should be tested.

You must accept what this man is telling you ie that the relationship is over. You will NOT be able to 'win him back' by carrying on feeding and caring for him and letting him come and go as he pleases. For one thing, if when he gets fed up with the woman he is seeing at the moment and comes 'home', rest assured he will have another affair and then another, because he will have decided that he can - and all it takes is a grovelling apology and a promise not to do it again, for normal domestic service to be resumed. till the next time he fancies sex with someone else.

You dont seem to be angry with your h - Well I am angry for you.

He is taking the piss - he is doing exactly as he likes and being allowed full access to your house and the dc.

Do me a favour - turn this around and imagine it was you seeing someone else, it was you coming and going as you please. Would your h be as accomodating as you are being?? I seriously doubt it.

I am afraid you are going to have to "man-up" and lay down some rules. Your dc are so young that it will be relatively easy to start afresh with rules etc on when their dad sees them.

What made me really angry with your story was - "He told me they had done nothing but talk and he then said he thought it was futile to work on things as he couldn't see it happening." - Why the fuck should he work on his marriage when he has the offer of uncomplicated sex and a wife that lets him do as he pleases

Stop being a doormat, dear.

I think what really damages children is conflict between their parents, which is far worse for them than 'confusion' about your relationship.

So keeping things amicable is really important and perhaps you should pause before getting angry or laying down your 'rules' or limiting his access to the children.

That said, the current arrangement can only be temporary and you need to have a plan about him moving out properly and what the long-term arrangements are going to be. Mediation can be very helpful. I would be very uncomfortable having my ex 'stay over' when I was in the house but have heard of people who maintain the family home for the children but have a separate place to stay themselves...but are you getting him to stay over so he sees what he is missing?

Firstly a huge thank you to everyone who has posted and offered me the open and honest advice on this situation. It is so nice to know there are so many of you that really want to make sure everyone is happy in the long run!

To reply to comments or questions:
Firstly I have done the anger and upset thing. I started that when he first said we should break up and mourned the relationship for nearly two weeks. Since he left and I made a conscious decision to use this to enrich mine and DCs lives, I have not felt any more need to be angry. I just don't do wallowing...much rather get on with things and wear a 'practical head' instead of leading with my heart all the time.

Regards to the comments or remarks about getting him back, I have made the decision that the door is not open to him on that front as I would just be waiting for him to go again. I'm under no illusion that he will change his mind - once he makes a decision he does stick to it. I just wanted to make it easier for DCs and thought this was a possibility. I will always have love for him but I want to use that love to keep our 'relationship' in a place that allows us to be around each other when the kids are involved.

I do wonder if I am just too calm about this but I really don't feel animosity towards him any more. I did get a little mad with him last night after he'd asked to sleep over and then, without letting me know, decided against it. I had to explain to DC that he wouldn't be there in the morning after all. He promised he wouldn't let them down or leave them behind like his dad did but, after only a week of it being over, he has done that. What annoyed me the most was that he didn't see it as letting them down!!! I told him that, if he keeps this up, things will be very different between us.

Actually you sound very sensible. It is better to be amicable with an XP if you can (and after all, it's also possible that the relatonship had simply run its course). However, you do have a right to be treated with consideration ie he shouldn't expect you to feed him or do his washing, and you do need to make it pretty clear that the family home is no longer his home.
It's generally better for all concerned if you can agree set times for him to see the DC rather than popping in as and when - for one thing, you don't want to be in the position of passively waiting for him to show up as this is rotten for DC as well as for you.
Best of luck.

someone once said on here the opposite of love is indiffernece - not anger/hate =- so is good if you feel "nothing".

however, best to set out regular set schedule of contact. if you ok with him in your house fine but set the days and get into a routine. best for kids that way.

The two weeks you spent being angry and grieving are just the start. You have scratched the surface. You are angry on behalf of the children, and that's fine, but it's also fine to be angry on your own behalf, and it's not wallowing either, for the way he has treated you. Anger will out -- have you investigated some counselling/support for yourself? Yes, what's done is done, and no amount of dwelling on the recent past will change it, but clarifying your feelings will help you move forward with resolve and shake this off.

If you want to be kind to yourself as well as prevent the continuous disappointment of the children, send a clear and unambiguous message to your exH that he can see the children at specific times and on specific days, and do it soon. This is the best way to ensure relations remain amicable. You will really come to resent the popping in and encroachment on your turf. The more opportunities you give this man to mess things up, it seems the more he avails of them.

Have you contacted a solicitor?

I'm going to disagree with Math, to some degree - I think dictating when and how often your ex can see his own children would be unfair and almost certainly trigger conflict.

Whilst some sort of routine is much better for them, it is much more likely to work if you agree/compromise/work out something between you, like the co-parents you hope to be. You may also want some degree of flexibility yourself as the children get older, so it might be better to avoid setting it in stone.

But it is not acceptable to let the DC's down without notice, so this may be a perfect opportunity to suggest mediation/a proper plan for this adjustment period and get some idea of what kind of arrangements might be worked out longer term when he has his own place.

You don't actually have to be devastated by the end of a couple-relationship. Sometimes it's nothing more than a dent to the pride and a little regret, but then comes a feeling of 'onwards and upwards'.
However, it is better to agree some sort of regular schedule with the co-parent who isn't living in the family home, so as to avoid the situation where you have made arrangements to do something with friends or go somewhere with the DC and all of a sudden here's Daddy wanting to see them so you have to drop all your arrangements.

Dictat or respectful negotiation bottom line is that the H understands things are now changed and he has his end of the stick to hold up for the sake of the children. Tooblue needs to draw clear lines, calmly and with her sanity in mind, because it's not good for the children to have a mum who is frazzled by being jerked around by someone inconsiderate or who enjoys playing mind games. Going through mediation is a great idea a mediator would help them cross Ts and dot Is Tooblue and her exH might not have even thought of.

There's no requirement to feel devastated for months after but maybe you don't feel that angry or upset because in many ways he hasn't left yet. And dh who is having his cake does need to also face up to the realities of being a separated father (25% of his salary etc)

Also think about it another way, imagine you had a new man in your life (early days I know!) but you wouldn't want an exhb to be popping round whenever he felt like it.

Establishing an amicable routine is good for you and the children.