So confused about situation with DH and really need perspective please.....

[3weeksandcounting]

I have posted a couple of times here in the past but not for about 6 months... I have learnt so much from reading others' posts on Mumsnet in this time and could really do with some advice. Sorry this is a bit long but then so is this saga!

In brief... H left me in October of last year after I confronted him as he 'just wasn't happy' - things between us hadn't been great for about 6 months but I had no idea things were so bad (married 4 years - 1 DD now nearly 3 and I also found out I was pregnant the week after he left -am due in 4 weeks). He has since admitted he totally regrets not doing talking to me more about his problems before walking out - with hindsight we have both realised that communication was terrible between us and that was the root of the problem - Both had very messed up dysfunctional childhoods (me alcoholic dad - him mum left him and dad had affairs) and there was (is) a lot of unresolved stuff there - There was briefly an OW but she was a symptom of his unhappiness rather than meaning a lot to him and he had a brief fling with her that he ended just before Christmas.

I had dragged him along to counseling that we went to until Feb but I then said I couldn't do it any more as I felt his heart wasn't in it and I needed to concentrate on my unborn DS and distance myself from him.

In April he said he wanted to make things work - to move back in - I still wanted to make things work but did not want him moving back in - too soon - too much pain but agreed to us spending time together..... But not much has happened - we have spent some lovely times together with our DD and alone -been to the cinema, dinner a few times on our own and he has very recently started his own therapy (I have been going since H left).

We have had some long and serious talks (some good some bad) about what went wrong but he said he can't imagine embarking on couples therapy until he has got his head straight in his own therapy to work out why this happened in the first place . He says he is consumed with guilt, shame and confusion about his feelings for me and that maybe we should just focus on the arrival of our DS in a few weeks time and see how we go from there.

He says he is really scared in case he throws himself into this then realises he can't do it and doesn't want to do this to me and DD (and by that time DS too) again in a few months time (I am really angry when he says this - I mean does he not understand that it is going to take more than a few months to sort this sh*t out ? - And am I being unreasonable when I am also very angry with him for basing his actions purely on his feelings with seemingly no responsibility to me, his DD who he adores and his unborn son ?- I am not saying we should stay together because of children but surely that should be enough for him to want to be a bit brave about this and throw himself in - see what happens ?).

I am totally torn between walking away and sticking with this . I have implied that I am not willing to wait much longer but ultimately I don't feel in my heart of hearts I am ready to close the door. I do genuinely believe that he is very messed up and confused about this and he isn't messing me around on purpose which makes me think I should stick with him (but distancing myself living my own life) whilst he gets his head straight.

In this long period of time I have been a range of things with him... totally honest sometimes, 'breezy' and nonchalant the next, I have tried distancing myself (normally when he does an about turn but then that wears off when I open up it seems), and a whole load of other things but I am very close to walking away... not because I feel ready to but because I feel a need to have some sort of certainty in my life.

I am really struggling at the moment... lots of emotions, pregnancy hormones, feeling very strong one minute (angry) and in pieces the next but I just want to keep what I have left of my dignity...... He says he wants to be there at the birth and will do whatever I want him to (It breaks my heart as he was so amazing at DD's birth but I just can't see him being there doing me any good so have asked 2 friends instead - he totally understands)He wants to help out as much as possible with me, our DD and DS and is being great.

From out outside perspective I would really appreciate some advice. Is he just stringing me along through guilt and is it obvious things after never going to change or should I stick with this and appreciate his head is all over the place and see if therapy (he is only 3 weeks in) helps him understand that a lot of the issues were issues with him, not our marriage and that we can work through this together. In short I think I can no longer see the wood for the trees and need some honest opinions - am I flogging a dead horse ?

Wow OP, I would be fu*king angry too! He's 'scared'?! Well, how does he think you feel? You poor, poor thing
You're right, you need some certainty in your life and he can't just keep popping up just when you feel like you're getting yourself back on track. That is NOT fair. It sounds like he wants all of the benefits, and none of the effort.
It's good that he wants to make the effort with his children though, so at least you've no problems there.
At the end of the day, if he loves you enough, he'll want to sort it out however hard it is for him xx

Only you can tell if you are willing to wait.

Personally I would feel that him trying to sort out his issues is a hugely positive step and means that he actually does want to fix things from the root rather than patching them up.

The timing sucks, of course, but it's pretty normal to need some space while going through this kind of process.

3weeks - sounds much like my H and I (except he hasn't messed me around saying he wanted to get back together etc and there has been no OW).

I'm due on friday, and we split about 3 months ago.

If you still love him, I would wait. I don't know if I love H any more but I am not closing any doors at the moment. H and I are making things work by being friends. It can be hard at times, but by telling myself he is my friend and also DS's dad, I don't feel bad about asking him to do things for me, or whinging (a bit ) about how fed up I am of being pregnant. I've set my boundaries, but did go through all those different behaviours with him before I found a place I was comfortable with. (and lovely anti-depressants)

My thinking is that by starting again as friends and co-parents we have a situation that can go either way without hurting us too much. We can spend time together with DS (but not too much!) without arguing - or without getting bogged down in arguments / letting them get too personal and we're more relaxed around each other than we have been for a long time.

Might that work for you? Forgetting the hurts and the wrongs for a while and focussing on your baby and DD and being parents together? That's a bond in itself, and there are lots of places to go from there.

FWIW H has had and just returned to counselling, and I've had a few sessions and will be starting properly after things have settled with the baby, then when my free NHS sessions are done we'll try relate. We have a plan, and we have boundaries that have kept DS very happy and us sane (mostly!)

I think he shouldn't move in, but show his attention in all other ways, like coming to stay with the children, helping with your chores and doing all the practical stuff that makes your life easier. And at the same time sorting out himself. If everything goes well, after some months he might be staying in your house more than he stays in his own, and that could be a sign for you two to move forward. If he messes up again (a lot of promises but little actions), you will have a right (and would feel better about it) to end the relationship.

BTW, end of pregnancy/birth time is not the best time to make life decisions, and I hope your DH will be capable of understanding that.

Thanks for your posts. You are being more understanding of him than I expected .... Its very useful as I think I am so caught up with pain, anger, fear and hormones that I can't see clearly any more. I suppose I just wanted to press the Fastforward button and have things a bit more sorted before the birth - but I guess in reality that's not possible and I have to be patient.

CMM - Very mature of you - I think maybe that's where I need to get to. But don't you find it hard to not get angry, want to know where you stand, and I don't know ... I just find it hard to 'accept' the situation when I am with him without giving him a hard time - to serve as a reminder of the situation that he has left me in.. yes of course then after an encounter where I have got very angry or upset with him I find myself regreting it as I think he'll think all I ever do is make him feel guilty and not remember that we can still get on... hmm tough hey. Good luck with the birth! Is he going to be there ?

DOn't let him move back in, you don't want your time with your newborn cluttered up by having to listen to this man whining about his 'neglected innner child' while you cook his meals and do his laundry as well as dealing with the DC.
Yes, OK, he is messed up and needs help and all that, however don't forget that YOU matter too, and there is no need for you to knock yourself out looking after him and surpressing your own feelings indefinitely.
It's good that he's getting help, and good that you can spend time together amicably, but don't let him get his feet back under the table yet, or you will be sending him the message that you will always be there to look after him and he can do what he likes as long as he weeps and apologises and promises to change.

I forgot to say in the post... a couple of months ago just as I was about to say 'ok .. let's bite the bullet - move back in' (we can never see each other I have counselling 2 eves a week - him 1 eve- then work , lack of baby sitters etc) he announced that he thought that would be rushing things and he thinks it a bad idea until we are in a better place.... so even if I wanted him to now I am not sure he would - I do understand what you say tho SGB . It's probably a good thing he wouldn't as I would probably have asked him by now!

Don?t drop all ?to do? lists at once, set up one rule at once, make him to agree with it (?you wouldn?t mind cooking dinner on Monday, would you??), don?t go in to arguments why he has to do it, don?t complaint if result is not perfect. If he doesn?t do as told you can say ?but you promised!?, involve kids in your excitement ?daddy is cooking dinner tonight, are we lucky aren?t we?? etc.

Sorry posted my last message in the wrong thread.

3 weeks - I found it really hard at first. I still feel at times that he has control of my life, and I do still get angry at him at times. The difference now is I always try to
a) walk away from the situation if I can, before arguments get too bad
b) apologise for the getting annoyed part
c) deal with the problem if it is relevant to how we relate about DS

I do my whinging to mumsnet and friends now. I know H can't deal with my emotions well - its something he's addressing with counselling, so rather than letting him see I'm upset I will generally explain it blandly by text later and have a good whinge to people who can deal with my emotions.

I definitely agree with others advising him not moving in. What allows me to be calm is the space. I can stress and stress and at the moment I know that soon, I will have time to myself to calm down and let it all out. H has DS 3 nights a week so I have lots of time to think, and to deal with things. When he was there all the time I just wanted to punish him for making me worry and feel bad, whereas now I know he is sad and lonely at times in his little flat - and I know its not just me suffering.

We are planning to have him at the birth but I've explained that i need to be able to be comfortable with his help after the birth, so if I get upset or hormonal with him during labour, and I ask him to leave, he should just go, no questions. I had a good chat with my counsellor about it last week

It is hard, and I don't always manage to be mature, but once I realised that he's not living the high life and he is upset and confused too, it got a bit easier.

3 weeks

I was about to say 'ok .. let's bite the bullet - move back in' .... he announced that he thought that would be rushing things and he thinks it a bad idea until we are in a better place.... so even if I wanted him to now I am not sure he would"

This seems to me like he might have realised the depth of where he is about to go in therapy and might need his own time and space to work through some very traumatic issues without the distractions ( rightly or wrongly) of others.

I agree with others that this seems to show real responsibility, that the cracks cant be papered over.

I am in a similar place to you both at the moment, know I have a lot to work through, but desperate for some certainty in my life.

Ex/p seemed to think it would take a matter of weeks before we got back together, after my first session of therapy I realised the problems ran a whole lot deeper and a few weeks space would not be sufficient at all.

Love from 1foot

thanks for that. Seems as if patience is the key... I suppose that in 3-4 weeks time when the baby is here I will have so much to focus on that us may naturally take a back seat anyway. I guess in my own (too logical sometimes) mind I am thinking bl**dy hell 7 months on and the longer he stays away the less chance we have of us getting back together - I think the maternal side of me just wanted everything to be magically fixed in time for DS arriving, and every time he hesitates I take it as a sign that he has a gameplan that that I don't know about but actually I think I need to calm down a bit and accept that his head is totally messed up...I need to stop focusing on him and think about me and the baby!

1 foot - what you say makes a lot of sense -I am just not very good at the not knowing thing.. I like to know what's ahead and that includes knowing if I am going to have a husband and DD and DS are going to have their Daddy full time in their lives 6 months down the line. I'ts really scary. But I have to tell myself it's not going to happen and carry on, get stronger and take the focus off him.

CMM - What boundaries have you set with your DH by the way ? I set some then we started supposedly 'working at it' so I relaxed a bit and now I feel like he is doing exactly as he pleases again -

I do want to be friends with him. Its a real balancing act and one that I am not very good at it as I think I need to earn his respect by being tough but the old me whats to make verything sugersweet to keep the peace.

Oh (is this the control freak / codependant in me coming out ?) He sees some things in a very different way to me (mainly about our relationship) and I worry in his therapy that he will only tell things from his side - whioch I guess is a given but there is so much more than what he will say... but this won't come out .. I suppose it depends on how good the counsellor is with these things.

Any more opinions really appreciated...

3 weeks - when he left I wrote a document (so we wouldn't have to argue about it) setting out what I expected of both of us. It was quite basic, about money, how often he would have DS, and critically that I expected him to be faithful until we decided to divorce. He agreed to it without question, but it was presented in a "here's how I see things, you need to say if you have a problem with any of that" way.

Since then we withdrew pretty much completely from each other and the friends thing has come about from odd emails, and the boundaries are pretty much unwritten / unsaid but we seem to be on the same page. There are a few though - for example I've said I won't talk about our relationship outside counselling, but will discuss things that affect how we deal with DS and the baby (which is still not here, grrrrr). The friends thing has happened slowly, but I suggested that we aimed for that when I realised that he wasn't comfortable talking to me about DS.

If I want him to do something, I ask myself whether it is something I would ask a good friend to do, or whether I would make a particular comment about a friend. It helps me to keep some distance but not be cold.

A few weeks ago I was really struggling with the whole 'not knowing' thing, but since then I have managed to focus on the baby more. I have done it, I think, by somehow managing to let go, and in general I can let myself assume that I will have to manage on my own (except it isn't on my own because he has show he is a real, committed co-parent) and that if we get back together it will be a bonus. If you're still very much in love with your H I imagine it will be a lot harder. I can understand that from the times when we are enjoying ourselves and I remember what it was like when we were really in love.

I also know completely where you're coming from with the counselling - H isn't necessarily going to know or admit how his actions and words affect others (that's always been a problem) or about how much he keeps in emotionally, but I can't help him with that -I failed for the last 11 years so he needs to just live without me for a while and (as I am doing) learn to consider and take responsibility for his own actions.

I'm on a thread for the recently dumped and we have a phrase there for these situations, when you just don't know how to keep going - 'Chin up, Tits out!'