Estranged Aunt wanting to build bridges on behalf of my father

[JukeboxBaby]

Name changer, sorry!

I drafted a long post about this, but it was exceptionally lengthy, so I am going to try and keep it brief, but if I haven't given enough info for responses, I'll post up the essay!

In a nutshell, I am expecting my first baby in a few months.
I haven't seen my father for 15 years. My parents divorced when I was 12, he was sporadic with his contact, dire with his child support payments, and after a particular event which just highlighted his rubbishness, I decided to tell him I didn't need him in my life. So that was 15 years ago, and I haven't heard from him since (he didn't put up much of a battle to stay in our (me and my siblings) lives).
Last year, my cousins on his side (i.e. his sister's children) found me on Facebook and got in touch. I was happy to hear from them, we've exchanged a few emails, not met up though. Now I'm pregnant. My cousin asked if she could tell her mum (my aunt) and I didn't know what to say so I said ok.
Today, I get a long email from my aunt saying she's heard my wonderful news, very happy for me, she and my father's wife both know and are so pleased for me, but they haven't told my father (is this likely??? - his own sister and his wife both know I'm pregnant, but haven't told him???), but with my cooperation, know he'd be delighted, and they think now is a good time to build bridges.

I am in a great place. I have a wonderful husband, a nice life, I don't miss having a father, and for how rubbish he was and how much stress he put my mother through, I feel like he doesn't deserve to enjoy a grandchild. I'd drawn a line under him, and felt great about it. I also don't want contact to be a slap in the face to my dear mother who had to raise three children completely alone, with barely any financial support from him, and acted as both parents to my siblings and me for a long time.

I don't want to be bitter/callous/hard though, I don't think I hold a grudge, but part of me thinks I would be being mean to ignore my aunt's request. I don't know!!!

Any advice?

Hmm.
Like you, I wouldn't want to dismiss this out of hand.

What I would want to say is that 'I do not have to build any bridges, if my father wants to have contact with me, he will have to consistantly make the effort and if even once, he lets me down, makes excuses for past behaviours or then any contact on my part will stop. I am pregnant and do not need the stress or upset.'

You would probably be able to word this better than me, it is a bit close to home as I have recently found my biological father after not seeing him since I was a baby around 32 years ago, and although a cousin of his has been lovely, supportive and asked and answered lots of questions, it would appear from the wall of silence in response to my e-mails etc that my father does not want to know.

How these men can switch on and off their love for their children is beyond me - I don't want you to be hurt the way I have been, even though obviously we are strangers! I had a hard time telling my mother to fuck the fuck off while I was pregnant and I appreciate the stress it can cause.

I hope it all turns out well for you.

I think I would tell aunt it's up to her & wife whom they share your news with, but you're perfectly comfortable with things as they are wrt contact. It might be nice to say how pleased you were to get back in touch with your cousins, and appreciate her desire to build bridges - but feel the bridge-building is rather unnecessary at this stage. You can always large up the emotional impact of your pregnancy to give her a reason to back off (hopefully!)

I certainly don't feel you need to go raking this up, out of misguided courtesy to your aunt - in case that was a factor. She will go right ahead and make as much of it as she's inclined to, with or without you. Unless you know otherwise, though, I'd assume she means this as a kindness ... which can be kindly rebuffed.

Congratulations on your soon-to-be! Sorry about the warm weather

Nemo: I'm so sorry to hear your bio dad isn't interested. But delighted you found a second cousin!

Sorry Jukeboxbaby for hijack - thanks Grace, my dad is unfortunately a bit of a twunt (or a 'doofus' as his cousin says!) but the rest of them are truly, truly lovely. They have said I am more than welcome if I want to go stay in Manitoba with them - and they mean it.

Sadly my bio dad found out as an adult that the guy he had been calling dad wasn't his bio dad. He had a lot of questions, but I don't believe he ever found him and the questions he had were never answered - people that could have told him stuff having already passed away.

More bizarrely, this 'dad / bio' theme is carrying on in my life and also my husband's life, it's all very very odd. Within 24 hours of tracking down my dad via internet, we got a letter from a solicitor regarding dh's dad (passed away a few years ago) and an alleged illegitimate son (and he's not the only one) and a claim on dh's dad's estate (good luck, there isn't one!)

I think I will write a book about it.

"My Jeremy Kyle Life" by Nemofish.

Nemofish, I am sorry to hear this is so close to home for you, and that your father is proving to be elusive and useless. And your mother too? At least my mother is great - I do have that going for me.

You are right - it's that I feel I shouldn't dismiss it immediately. I feel cruel, unforgiving, brattish to do so, and that's not me. But I think, will he enhance my life? No, I don't think so. My life truly is great as it is. The only reason I can think of to do anything about my aunt's request would be to give my father the gift of a gorgeous bundle of joy, and to be the bigger and better person. But then there's my mother, and I feel she raised my younger siblings alone for so long, sacrificed so much, and she doesn't deserve to have to share the benefits with my useless father.

Thanks for your reply, ItsGraceAgain. My aunt pre-empted the pregnancy hormones already in her email by admitting this was a tough time and my hormones may be raging, but that she'd help in any way she could. She's also said he doesn't talk about us (me and sibs) as it's "too painful for him". Quite frankly, I don't believe this, really. As Nemo said above, how a parent ever walks out on children he is supposed to love, I just don't know, but he did, and he could have done lots of things at the time to maintain a relationship with us, but HE chose not to. I think claiming it's all too painful for him now is a bit rich. And if he did feel regret, why hasn't he gotten off his arse and made efforts before now? My siblings and I are VERY easy to Google as we all have very unusual names, and certainly for one sibling and I, our work details are available for all to see (pre-marriage for me, but I am still traceable by my old surname) on the Internet.

I will give my aunt the benefit of the doubt and say she has approached this out of kindness, yes. She is a grandmother herself, and started off her email saying what a blessing it was to have grandchildren etc. Though at the same time, she knew what my mother was struggling with when we were 12. 10 and seven, and I don't remember any help coming from them towards my newly single mother. I have some annoyance (don't quite want to call it anger as I do feel I've let that all go) about that. We were in bad financial straits since the divorce, and no one from his side of the family seemed to care.

I am just not sure whether my father knows, I am not sure his own sister and his wife would both know and not tell him he has his first grandchild on the way. As such, should I believe he does want to build bridges (which as Nemo said, should be him doing the building), then he should get off his bum and do something, not leave it up to his sister.
I don't know! I just don't know!

Nemo, with your own story, I hope you can find some closure - some people are just useless, and it doesn't matter that you share bloodlines, they are just useless.

P.S. @ Grace, thanks for the congrats - and yes, I am sweltering!

Nemo, cross-posts just then! Hijack away. I am glad the rest of the family are lovely. As I said just now, if he is a useless lump of uselessness, it's his loss, isn't it.
Your name is somewhat ironic, Nemo.

You wouldn't be mean to ignore your aunt's request..it hasn't even come from your father but from his sister. You don't owe either of them anything and if you really don't want any contact with your father then just say so (I do believe that she might not have passed on your news yet and would prefer to have your permission).

OTOH you don't owe your mum any alliegance on this either. If you chose to contact your father she might feel hurt and that would be a pity, but you do have the right to contact him if you want. As your child grows up you might want him or her to be part of that side of your family so I wouldn't necessarily rule it out forever or make promises at this stage to anyone. It probably isn't the best time for a big emotional upheaval so you could always say that it is not a good time for contact now but you would consider it for the future.

I know how much pressure you can feel to be a good daughter to both your parents even if one of them was a total loser. My grandfather made me feel guilty for not having contact with my dad even though he went to prison for abusing me - and my mum put pressure on me to have nothing to do with his entire family even though they did nothing wrong and were always lovely You have to find your own way through it and try not to get too caught up in what other people think is the best.

juke box baby,

Congratulations on the pregnancy x

I am in your mothers position. My children are young!

I have a different view to the one I would have had before being in this situation!

Before I would have said give him a chance.

Now I don't think that is always such a good idea.

The man does not talk about you, as it is too difficult for him emotionally, red flag, selfish and has not dealt with his guilt so is in major danger of trying to pass the buck when you meet him and tell you lies that could damage your relationship with your mother!

Second red flag, the aunt and the wife are trying to triangulate things with you and him, and have not told him, yikes, dysfunctional family alert! a straightforward transaction is to tell the man and leave it up to him to get in touch, rather than all this dramatic cloak and dagger stuff, I am sure there are good intensions behind the need for secrets and drama, but it is game playing hun from the aunt trying to be a rescuer, it is not her place!

Third red flag, is that your father did not want to have contact and did not want to support you as children, again selfish man, probably lied to people about the situation etc, and I suspect from the dysfunctional game playing aunt that he has had no help from any professional and that if you have contact with these people too much they will drag you into their nonsense and games.

By all means keep a light relationship going, and as for not keeping in touch as you feel it may be disloyal to your mum, I don't think that is so, I would not be too close as the man is selfish through and through and to the point that his sister and wife are scared to tell him about you and are trying to make you cower to him as most people in life probably have to, they are setting the way to what to me seems like a narcassist man and are trying to teach you how to treat him, in the only way he will accept to be treated as the king and you and they are lowley, for your self esteem I would not go near him, and keep a distant friendly relationship with the rest of the family that have grown up with this dysfunction!

what a great post from mummiehunnie.

I agree to keep them at an arms lenght. You dont need these people messing with your life.

Mummiehunnie's reply has detailed everything I was thinking but didn't say in so many words.
Yes, whatever you do, keep it clear & honest and avoid contributing to any manipulations.

TheProvincialLady, thanks - you have addressed something of the duty I do feel to my mother, and part of this is indeed that I don't want to contact him and it be a slap in the face to her. She WILL want what is best for me, she's that selfless and amazing, but I am not even sure having my father back WOULD be especially wonderful, seeing as he was capable of deserting three children so completely. It's not that I am scared he'd dump us again, I do feel very strong and in a great place, with the love of a good man, my loving siblings and all my in-laws. Just does he deserve US!!! I am so sorry to know your father abused you, and that your grandfather expects you to be on good terms with him!!! Outrageous! At least I don't have that to deal with - my father was just useless.

Mummiehunnie, thanks re the congrats. I am sorry you were put in the same position as my mother. I will say this to you though. My mother THRIVED. She came into her own. She found strengths she might not have found before. And she raised three children to be fiercely independent, loving and close with one another, and we are all very very happy. I actually feel I am probably a better-off person BECAUSE I come from a one-parent family, forced to understand the relevance of financial security of my own, never settling, not putting up with other people's nonsense!

I also often belong in the 'give him a chance' camp. If ever I am watching one of those shows where they've traced an errant parent, I want the child to reach out with loving arms, forgive, and have a happy ending. Weird! However. As you say, he has not owned up to things, is selfish, doesn't seem to be able to talk with his sister about his children. He already passed the buck when things all came to a head which caused me 15 years ago to tell him to bugger off, believe me, it was pathetic. So I know his stance, and the tactics he'd use. But that WAS 15 years ago, he's an old man now, probably mellowed, I don't know.

I have to go out for the day now, I thank you all so much for your responses, I'll be back tonight to see if I've gotten any more, it's already helped to talk things through, though I am not entirely sure what I want to do yet. I haven't mentioned it to my own mother yet, thought I'd try and get things a bit clearer in my head first.

Thank you again.

I don't have any experience of this type of situation but my first reaction would be, if he wants contact he should chase it, not his sister.

Let her tell him but then he has to approach you with an explanation and apology for what he did, if he can't put in the leg work then he doesn't deserve the contact with his grandchild.

Congrats on the pregnancy

Ah yes, I am the fishy parent that is learning to let her little fish take risks and become more independant though!

Don't let anyone take you away from your happy place, Jukeboxbaby, that is my problem, I let the bad things get to me too much, I actually live a wonderful life, and I am slowly becoming mended enough to enjoy it.

I like the phrase 'useless lump of useless!'

If he had mellowed, and even learnt, dont you think HE would be contacting YOU?

And why do you think that his wife and sister would keep your pregnancy from him, if he really had mellowed?

Congratulations on your pregnancy.

This Aunt is playing rescuer and it could well backfire on you badly, they cannot and should not be speaking for your Dad. If your Dad wants contact then he should be the one to make it directly to you rather than the aunty here saying that he would be delighted with your co-operation. I would write a reply along the lines of what Nemofish has written in her initial reply to you.

Such selfish people like your Dad was 15 years ago rarely, if ever, change. He's likely still as selfish now as he was back then all those years ago. If he rejects you again now you will end up feeling very hurt and that will also affect how you feel re your wider family like the cousins who found you. Pity they did not at that time get someone like the Salvation Army involved as they could have actually facilitated direct contact with your father. they are often helpful in these sorts of cases.

I haven't had a parent out of my life, but I did cut out my father's entire family after something that happened when I was 16. Well, his parents anyway, and the others just bogged off with them.

For nearly 20 years I had nothing to do with them. I now give my dad's parents a gift at Christmas, and have done for the last 3 years. Because they are now in touch with my parents and give me money at christmas. I take that money and I buy them a gift for that exact amount and give it to them. Then I put them out of my mind and out of my life for the next 12 months.

As for the rest of them - aunts, uncles, cousins... I wouldn't know them if I fell over them and I don't care. They're just people I don't know. I have no more desire to get to know them, than I do some random person in, say, outer mongolia.

I've never missed them. They brought nothing to my life. They are a closer genetic match, probably, than that random person in outer mongolia, but so what? That's an accident of birth. Who cares?

Family are the people you love and who love you. I have never subsribed to the whole "blood is thicker than water" shit.

You owe someone nothing because of an accident of birth. You owe nobody a place in your life if they don't deserve one.

You sound like you're happy. If it was me, I'd leave it.

sounds to me like your aunt and your dad's wife want to have a relationship with you and your grandchildren and probably think it would be nice for him to too.

i suspect he doesn't know, probably because as he doesn't talk about his kids, no-one else in his world does either.

from what you've said i don't think you want to see him again. so don't. i don't think he's going to be this amazing grandfather all of a sudden. he's not suddenly going to fulfill the dad role that he's let you down on before.

i agree that you have to think about your mum. you could discuss it with her?

i'd say 'thanks but no thanks'.

Sound advice from Attila, Hecate and warthog and the rest!

Both me and the OP are just a bit of a soft touch I think - but I don't have the excuse of pg hormones, it's just hormones in my case!

I do also think that the Aunt is probably the one in the family who wants to win her brothers good favors, and in rescuing the situation with his kids and bringing him and you back to gether he will be nice to her, and she will have her niece in her family and her little fantasy that her brother is a wronged misunderstood man will be realised for her, the reality is that she has stuck by a man who has treated his innocent kids appaulingly and her living in denial has done nothing good for you, now the games, fantasies and her guilt are making her do things that are not in your best interests, they are really about her and your dad and their needs, they sound like a messed up family, him narc and her co dependant, you sound like you have had a good life and are happy, I wish you well x

JamieJay, I agree with you. I think IF he doesn't know about this baby, well, there's been nothing to stop him tracking us down (actually, my mother hasn't even moved house since the divorce, so he could easily send a letter there). I am actually 'old' for a first time mother, so could have had children years ago for all he knows. I have occasionally wondered if he must sometimes have thought "I wonder if I have grandchildren?". And if he DOES know (that I am with child), I think it's likely that the aunt and his wife are putting the feelers out to me, as if I reject him directly, then well, that wouldn't be so nice for him, would it.

Nemo, I am sure your little fish will grow up to be strong and independent and loving.

QSnon, hm, you have a point! His sister also did say in her email that he had "buried things deeply and was stubborn". I just think, I don't want to be bitter here.

Thanks for your thoughts, Attila. Yes, I think you are right re the aunt (and his wife) that they want to be rescuers here. Though I think the aunt could have done something 24 years ago, when the divorce happened, but did nothing at all. I don't really understand them. If my brothers had children and got divorced, I know I would do all I could to stay in those children's lives. They are innocent, they are my flesh and blood, they are my children's cousins. As such, why NOW do they want to re-establish contact?

Hecate, true. But part of me (a small part) wonders if I am depriving a child of a grandparent (though will already have my mum and both PILs who are awesome). And addressing warthog too, I will say, my father was actually a good fun dad when we were very little. He'd throw us in the air and play and teach us to ride our bikes and rollerskate. But that was it. No responsibility - my memories from a young age are that my mother was left to organise everything important, she was the disciplinarian, and he just did the fun bit. That's ok for a grandfather, I guess.
But bottom line, I think it would all be damn awkward, and you can't just pick up like everything is normal, can you. And I don't want to punish him, but I also feel he simply doesn't deserve the pleasure of a grandchild (and hopefully we'll have a couple more, as will my brothers one day).

warthog, you suspect he doesn't know, which is what other posters seem to agree with too. The thing that puzzles me is, his own wife keeps this from him??? I'd never keep such a thing from my husband. Or my brother.

mummiehunnie, well, the aunt has actually send in her email that she and her brother have barely been in touch over the last few years themselves, and started off her email by saying "families can be funny things".

I've been out all day and haven't contacted my mother yet. I didn't want to rock her boat either, really. I think I'll forward her the email and see what she has to say. She knows him better than me, I guess!

Thank you all again for your responses - it truly has helped clarify a few thoughts (and it looks like I am leaning towards telling the aunt thanks but no thanks), though I am not 100% that this isn't being harsh, and thinking sometimes people deserve a second chance. Not REALLY thinking this is one of those times, but I don't want to instantly dismiss it.

Update

Just called my mother. She didn't give a response until she'd dragged it out of me what I wanted to do/what my thoughts were. I said pretty much what I've put in my previous post.

She said it was of course up to me, but that if I wanted her opinion, it was that he deserves the blessing of a grandchild and not denied this amazing happiness in his old age. She said he's not a bad person, just was always a bit useless, and a bit emotionally incapable (I think she was being kind. I recall several things he did that I would term 'bad', but anyway).
She isn't convinced he DOES want to be involved, and thinks it may be that his sister and his wife like the idea of playing happy families. She thinks if I do decide I want contact, I should not involve my aunt or his wife, but get the message to him that I am open-minded, and if he wants to make an effort, he should do so.
She is a gracious woman, I'll give her that! Me, I am actually feeling quite confused.

way to go your mum, she has it so very right, no triangulated relationship, straight you and your Dad, and make him chase you, well done your Mum, she sounds great! not surprised you are confused, she has left you to make your own decisions, and advised you deal directly with him, that is the best way, leave the game players to it, and don't you dare cower to him as your aunt seems to want you to do, he should hang his head in shame as should she and do everything he can to get in YOUR good books and it does look like the Aunt is using it as a way to get back in his good books after all x

Ps the aunt will have her just deserts after abandoning you as children and trying to use you, if you don't respond to her at all and just contact your dad and don't tell her anything at all about anything!

and dont put it on facebook or tell the cousins either keep it all to yourself for now, that way no one can cause trouble for you, you don't deserve it x

Thanks, Mummiehunnie. Yes, my mother is quite sensible and doesn't do nonsense game-playing. I am humbled in a way she can just gloss over all he put her through and wants him to share in this special time. I also feel it will be very VERY awkward though, to let him in. I haven't seen or heard from him since I was 21. I didn't especially admire the person he was. And we aren't even clear that he wants to get in touch either - all I have is what my aunt is saying, and I don't know what her motives are. I don't know why now. And why she was so useless too, when my siblings and I were children, and there was no doubt at all the struggles my mother faced, yet no help came from those quarters. Why now does she want to play happy families?

All I can think is, this might be nice for him, to get a relationship with a grandchild and some semblance of a relationship with his daughter, but me, I really am perfectly happy already, and don't feel that he would make my life better.
I haven't spoken with my brothers about this yet, I think they are even less likely to be bothered about him, being younger at the time and having fewer memories of him.

My mum suggested I could actually go via the female cousin, and bypass the aunt. My mum said the female cousin was a sweet child (she's two years younger than me), and her heart is probably in the right place. She isn't sure about my aunt. I don't know about involving my cousin, but otherwise, it's ME making first contact with my father. The only other way is to tell my cousin I am ok to have her tell my father, then the ball is in his court.

I would not involve anyone else Jukebox and if it was me, I would just send him a birth announcement card when you have the baby with some contact details to you directly, and leave it at that, leave the ball in his court then to do what he needs to do with no interfereance from anyone else!

I would not involve the cousins or the aunt, no one, it has to be direct, or games and manipulation can be involved by others with their own agenda's, keep things direct and things will be simpler x

Are you able to find out where he lives?

A relationship could just be seeing your dad each summer or something, meet up just him, you and the baby and leave it at that, your child and you will know your father, and keep thigns light, no discussion about others, no talk of the past etc... if you want a more meaningfull relationship then you will have to deal with the past and how he and his family treated you all.

As for the aunt, she has no excuses, I can't get my ex's family doing that to my children, they are lazy selfish game players and he obviously means more to them than innocent children, so they as someone else said are nothing to my kids now, it is a shame, probably for the best if they are selfish and useless game players, my kids deserve better and to be happy as you are x

good luck x

Thanks for all your input today, Mummiehunnie. You sound wise and sensible and like a good mum. Your children are blessed and don't need a useless absent father or his useless absent family. Shame, but I do feel it is their loss. Do you have family on your side? My mother had none - both parents died before I was born, and her siblings all emigrated.

I do have his address, yes. Aunt put it on the email as his wife had asked to have it sent on. I just feel it's still ME making the first move (not that I have 100% decided I am going to!), you know? It's like by contacting him first, it lets him think he's off the hook and the past years of uselessness mean nothing. Which I suppose they don't, really, as I am unharmed and in a good and happy place, but I still think he needs to prove himself. But then is that game playing? I hate game playing!

Your children will turn out fine. One great parent is perfectly adequate.