Putting up healthy boundaries in a relationship where for 10 years there have been none

[cherryandalmondtart]

How do I do it? DH is unsurprisingly resistant to me putting up any boundaries in our relationship when I have essentially been a doormat for years.

I have been trying to put up boundaries wrt how he speaks to me, how he treats me and I always just come up against a brick wall. If he speaks to me horribly/aggressively or ignores me, according to him it was always somehow my fault.

He tells me loves me and does many nice and good things for me, is generous financially. But emotionally he leaves me feeling angry, upset, disrespected.

In an ideal world we would just split up. But it's not as easy as that, although I have certainly not ruled it out for some point in the future, when it suits me. It doesn't suit me at the moment for a lot of different reasons.

Is it possible to put up boundaries in a relationship where before there were none? Thinking about it, I realise that this essentially means DH has to change and I know I cannot make him change. However I am getting tired and weary of trying to put up boundaries so I don't get trampled on by DH and am just not sure where to go from here. He is unwilling or unable to respect my boundaries and yet he is not all bad. He is a decent man, he has just got too used to having it all his own way for too long.

You cannot change your dh but you can change your tolerance of his behaviour. When you say he ignores you, what do you mean? Is it a bit like "please don't put the bread there" - DH puts the bread there? or is it more like you talk to him but he blanks you?

If he speaks aggressively to you, how about interupting him with "I'm not going to allow you to speak to me like this, when you can talk to me more respectfully, I'll listen" and then walk away.

I don't know, its difficult to know without much info but I will say that trying to change the 10 year habits of someone in a "Live-in" situation will be exhausting and draining.

Buy the book "The Verbally Abusive Relationship - how to recognise it and how to respond" by Patricia Evans.

It is possible to put up boundaries. Even if he does not appear to respond, keep doing it. You need to do it for your own self-respect. Call him out on every occasion he is abusive.

"I'm hearing abuse from you" and walk away.

"Stop shouting at me" and walk away.

"Stop criticising me" and walk away.

"stop blaming me" and walk away.

"Your shouting is not my fault...you are responsible for your own behaviour" and walk away.

That kind of thing.

Sounds like you are on the right track...if there is any chance of him changing you will start to see it quite quickly. In the meantime carry on with your leaving plan.

P:S: the nice things he does are irrelevant...all abusers, bullies, and wifebeaters are occasionally good to their partners.

Perhaps you could get him to agree to treat you the same way he treats his mum/dad/best mate/whatever - he surely cannot argue that he would treat you worse than them.

Then when he goes back to his old ways, simply say "you would not treat x that way" and walk off.

That patricia evans book gets recommended on here a lot , and while it is good for explaining the dynamics that cause this, i dont know what to think about some of the suggestions for dealing with it, in the way of why should you have to change your behaviour to stop someone abusing you.

You might well be able to employ tactics to prevent him from walking all over you, but thats not really the problem is it, the problem is whats driving this behaviour. Why does he think he should be able to speak to you in a horrible aggressive way ? Why does he feel your less worthy of respect than his freinds or colleauges ?

His deep seated beleifs and sense of entitlement will not go away because you walk away from him and respond in a differant way. I had a similar marriage, i tried everything, and as we apeared to resolve one area of disrespect, another one would come up, and it was the same old cycle of him excusing it, claiming he hadnt done it or just plain refusing to discuss it.

It IS tiring and wearing , the conversations just go round in circles and your just not listened to. In my experience there are really only two ends to this sort of thing, one is to accept this bad treatment or the other is to emotionally detatch from him so that you dont care what he thinks .

Thanks for all your replies and sorry I disappeared for a while.

I really appreciate the advice you have all given me. To an extent it all makes sense which is a bit confusing.

I think whilst I have been trying to put up boundaries recently, at the moment when the unacceptable behaviour happens, I find myself getting upset/emotional/scared and cannot get myself together enough to detach, take a step back, and say to DH the sort of thing mumonthnet has suggested. Thinking about it now, perhaps when DH is aggressive with me, it must trigger me and I go into scared/helpless child mode. (My dad was like this and I was often terrified of him but never showed it, always put on a 'cool' front and acted calm when inside I was upset and scared). If I could stay in adult mode, I would be able to say to DH the way he was talking etc was unacceptable.

dignified I can relate to some of your post. Like your exDH(?) my DH always denies his aggressive behaviour or claims it was justified in some way ie I provoked him. He never simply and unreservedly accepts responsibility for his actions.

I think I am currently slowly emotionally detaching from him as I have realised that is the only way to survive life with DH. As I have said above, it is not right for me at the moment to split up with him, but I can see it happening in the future.

dittany you are right, why am I with somebody who makes me feel bad about myself? I have noticed recently that when I have spent time with him, i usually come away feeling hurt, upset, disrespected, ignored. I know I have been taking too much notice of what he says (he really really loves me and doesn't want anybody else) as opposed to how he makes me feel. Why does somebody who says he loves me so much make me feel so bad?

It doesn't add up does it. I know it's obvious to others on the outside, but it has been very confusing for me to work out what is the true picture here. Because like I said, DH can at times, be very nice and thoughtful.

I think that if I had put down boundaries from day 1, DH would not have married me. He would not have wanted to be with a woman who could stand up for herself, who wasn't afraid to say no to him, who wasn't afraid to be alone. I am becoming this woman, but I was a very different person when we got married.

Next time DH crosses the line I am going to try my hardest to stay in adult mode and calmly tell him his behaviour is unacceptable. I haven't been able to do this until now as I immediately get upset/emotional and either say nothing or stew inside for a while and then burst out with something in a not very calm or adult way.

From some of the things you've said, I reckon you would get a LOT out of therapy, and recommend you find yourself a female counsellor, who strikes you as having the attitude you would like to have

I've only just realised that the reason X#2 divorced me (yes, I was too submissive to dump him ...) was because I did challenge him. He went off to find somebody more obedient. That took him a few years though, so there's a fine chance yours will put up with you (!) long enough for you to reach whatever objectives you have in mind.

P. Evans's advice is good. Depending on your man, though, the terms "abuse" and "control" might inflame him more than you'd like. If he's more of a silent disapprover, you can probably have quite a bit of fun watching as he silently tries to turn those words into evidence that he's a Proper Man ...

Less in-your-face examples from my own marriage:-

Him: (Raging) "Haven't I got any clean shirts???!"
Me: (Sweetly) "I don't know, H, did you wash any?"

Him: (Bossy)"Tonight I want This & That for dinner."
Me: (Helpful)"You can get the ingredients from Some Shop on your way home. Make enough for both of us, will you please?"

Him: "I'm at (lapdancing place) with Fred, Bill & Jim, I'll be home late."
Me: "I asked you not to go there with your mates. Don't come home tonight. Thanks for the call."

Him: "You're always moaning!"
Me: "I do moan sometimes. Doesn't everyone!"

Him: "Roll over."
Me: "No."

Back then, I didn't know about Transactional Analysis back then, so I'm telling you about it now There are lots of useful assertiveness techniques you can try out.

Have fun!

Could you write him a letter telling how his behaviour makes you feel? Would he agree to go to Relate?

Thinking about it now, perhaps when DH is aggressive with me, it must trigger me and I go into scared/helpless child mode

Same here op , again, something worth exploring with a counseller. Do you find it hard to assert yourself in other situations with people similar to your H ?

Im not sure i would bother telling him his behaviour is unacceptable, he knows this , thats why he only does it in private. I had a lot of counselling about this and it was really usefull.

Re his aggresive behaviour ,I would get suckered in every time. He would be rude or aggresive and i would quite rightly object. He would then go off on a tangent, effectiveley purging himself of his emotional crap. Each time i would be left feeling ignored and angry.

I often thought he just didnt get it, but he did, all too well. In effect i was simply a usefull vessel for dumping his feelings into , and id unwittingly take them on. It might be usefull for you to veiw these incidants similar to a child attention seeking in order to have a row. You dont have to engage, defend yourself or try to explain that your upset, he knows all these things .

His angry feelings are his, not yours, refuse to take them off him anymore. Next time he is rude or whatever, simply remove yourself, go out, run a bath, just dont engage, same as you wouldnt with a stroppy child who accuses you of being tight cos he cant have 50 biscuits.You wouldnt take that on, dont take his crap on.

Dont try to get him to apologise or take responsibility, he wants to blame you, so what ? Let him. Your emotional reactions are his tools that he uses to manipulate you into becoming upset so he feels superior " Arent i clever, ive just really upset cherry ".

Are you able to tell when hes going to start this ? Theres often a cycle to this sort of thing. Is he gaslighting you, telling you what youve said, havent said, or denying hes said things ?

Thats a really good link, i like this bit about fogging ,,

By refusing to be provoked and upset by criticism, you remove its destructive power. Why, after all, should you crave someone else's complete approval, when doing so gives them power over you?

I have to be brutally honest and say - I don't think you can.

The biggest step you can take to send the strong message that you will not be treated like this is to end the relationship. I know that is not at all easy and I am not advising you to do so - none of my business, I don't know you etc - but I honestly don't think that after ten years of treating you like shit, he is likely to change.

I know that is not what you want to hear, most likely, but ime that is almost always how things play out in these situations.

If, for what ever reasons, you do not want to take steps towards fundamentally changing the relationship (ie: living apart for a bit and only being prepared to engage with him if he behaves in a respectful manner) or even separating, then I think for your own emotional sanity the best thing to try to do is to emotionally disengage (as others have suggested). I know people who have done this (although I have to say that in nearly every case the couples eventually split up). I also have friends who continue to do it with ex husbands who, despite being exes, still emotionally harrass and bully their ex wives (they just can't bear to have lost control over them).

I would find it hard to respect a person (especially if it was a supposedly intimate relationship) if they behaved in the way that you describe. Once the respect is lost, then I find I don't really care what that other person thinks/says/does so the power is taken away. The danger is that this may infuriate the other person so that they escalate their game. But by this stage they really are throwing toys out of the pram.

Sounds like he needs therapy, but that should be his problem rather than yours.