Just come across term 'gaslighting'. Really strikes a chord. Can anyone point me in right direction.

[wheresmypaddle]

I have just come across the term gaslighting on another thread. I googled it and wow it sums me up so well:

(Quote from google:"The problem, is that women often fall into the empathy trap, which tends to occur when we become so good at trying to understand where someone else is coming from and how they're feeling that, almost imperceptibly, we start to see things from their perspective."

"Suddenly one's own feelings and sense of reality take a second seat and you will often end up apologising for someone else's behaviour, feeling unsure of yourself and your opinions, losing the courage of your convictions and, over time, essentially forgetting who you are," she cautions)end of quote.

I can find snippets on google and frequent book recommendations. I would love to find more details on-line as I have bought several 'self-help' books recently and would like to find about this now [impatient].

Maybe I am just falling into the trap of pscho-babble, but I am astounded at how well this sums up my difficulties.

Does anyone have a useful on-line source of information? Particularly on how to get unstuck from letting this happen?

Where did you get that quote from? to my understanding, gaslighting is not what you have said above, more that it's a form of emotional abuse levelled at one. Making you feel crazy/paranoid etc

Agree with Avad - from what I understand, gaslighting is generally when someone else makes you doubt yourself, makes you think you are in the wrong, etc.

Is this happening to you Paddle?

Avad- I did a google search and it was on one of the links. Its written by someone who claims its a quote from the author of the gaslight effect(Robert Stern). I haven't done a link before so I hope this works: www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Divorce-Advice/Relationships/58455-Re-The-Gaslight-Effect.html

By only pasting part of the article I have probably not given a fair picture of the explaination of the term- your understanding is correct I think- however, the part I pasted I guess covers why its someone may fall into the trap of becoming a 'gaslightee' so to speak.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Minipie, its a rather long story (aren't they all). In a nutshell DP/EXDP moved out following me finally plucking up the courage to tell him how much his lack of support was affecting me.

At the time I felt sure he was in the right, weeks later and after a few discussions, I find myself doubting my every word and becoming convinced things are my fault.

I can always excuse his poor behaviour, see the reasons behind it, forgive him for it.

He always manages to convince me I am in the wrong, to make things my fault. I blame myself for so much, when somewhere deep down doubt thats really the case.

I don't think he does it deliberately as such- its kind of like he struggles to see himself in the wrong, and I struggle to see myself in the right.

I would like to be able to get a handle on this self-doubt and get off the rollercoaster as I feel like I am very close to the end of my tether.

paddle - it's one thing to understand and forgive someone else's poor behaviour, but that doesn't mean you are in the wrong.

you made the decision for a reason (doesn't sound like you would have done it lightly). have confidence in that.

does sound like the "gaslighting" resources could be useful to you. If you do a search on MN you should find a few threads with links in them.

where's my paddle since I know your story from your other threads, I think that's exactly what's been happening to you. The last time you posted, I seem to recall that your counsellor was urging you to find your anger. Is it coming through now?

Remember yonks ago when you posted about your H and his sense of entitlement? Several of us then thought that your H was punitive, controlling and abusive.

I often think that if someone hasn't been angry before, they will get very angry when they read about gaslighting and it strikes such a chord. Have a chat with your counsellor too - she will have heard of it, if she is a trained and competent professional.

WWIFN I am touched that you remember me!! Thank you.

I think I am closer to finding my anger. After a particularly ridiculous conversation wth DP yesterday (in which he accused me of BOTH not seeming keen to have him back and thus hurting his feelings, AND pushing him into reconsidering coming back when he said he needed time) I actually had a moment where I realised he was being so childish and manipulative that he was almost comical in his ridiculousness.

I think it was a shock to feel this flash of reality and feel completely in the right just for a second. I actually said to myself "F off, you w**.

The sense of entitlement comment that you mention haunts me often as it is sadly so accurate. He turned up on Sunday, burst into tears said he missed me, loved me and wanted to talk about our 'issues'. We both wrote a list of things that needed to change. His list was alarmingly reasonable- offering to change all sorts. He got really angry when he read mine (not abusive angry, just cross) and he stormed off. Needless to say, once again he insists all is my fault and I am left reeling and sad and confused!!

The gaslighting stuff has been fascinating. I have my weekly counselling session tomorrow. They have been so so helpful- I am going to bring it up with her.

An example of gaslighting...(after DD crashes car and it's a right-off)

Ex- I'll do anything to help. You only have to ask

Me- Oh that's great can you get her a car please?

Ex- No

Me- But you just said that you would do anything to help!

Ex- No I didn't!

Me- ....(Three years ago ) yes you did!!!!
.....(Now)

It was a bit more involved than that but that's the gist.

HTH xx

Wheresmyp.. I hadn't heard of 'gaslighting' either until a post from WWIFN on a thread I had started asking for advice.

She suggests this is what I had been suffering at the hands of my H, who had been having an affair and denying it for 3 years or so, plus other incidences where he really made me feel I was losing my mind and I couldn't trust my instincts and feelings anymore.

I had never considered him as abusive, but others in RL have suggested he was controlling me subtly.

He certainly shows traits of NPD and has a huge sense of entitlement and that I should be grateful for all he has provided for me. He also has a powerful position in a top plc, very high achiever.

A recent example of his NPD/controlling behaviour was this (and people in RL may recognise me for this)

I had said I wanted nothing more to do with him, no contact unless legal or to do with DC. That was about 4 weeks ago, he said he didn't understand why!!!! WTF

He rang me about a week ago to see how I was because he was going on holiday, with OW of course.

I made it quite clear and reiterated what I had said previously, and again he seemed genuinely shocked.

He just doesn't get it, he still thinks that despite all he has done to me and DC over the last 3 or 4 years, that we can remain friends and have a good relationship.

What goes on in their minds I have no idea, I will never understand him.

I have read articles on the web re: gaslighting and generally hate labelling people, but do see many traits and descriptions that fit my H and many that do not.

Good luck with your counselling.

Try this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Also I would read Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That, easy to get on Amazon etc. I recognise you from other threads and your ex sounds like an expert emotional abuser. Having got away from one myself, I recognise lots of it. The anger does come, it just takes awhile.

A lightbulb moment for me was shortly after we split up and he was repeatedly late collecting/dropping off DD from contact visits. When I picked him up on it, he wrote me a letter saying I was unreasonable and overreacting by expecting him to be on time and that I was being unfair to our daughter. I just realised that even if I was being unreasonable and overreacting, that was up to me and he would have to deal with it.

Don't get into discussions with him. We communicate by text and letter, I haven't talked directly to my ex since I left last July and it's the best way of getting out of the habit.

What I have never considered was the fact that my H was emotionally abusing me.

Yes lying, cheating, deceiving, planning behind my back, spending a lot of time with OW, including going on holiday with her; all awful totally unforgivable behaviour.

But 'abuse' that always seemed such an extreme word to describe extreme, dangerous behaviours.

I now know that when I was living with the suspicion and anxiety before discovery, a period of about two years, I felt very sad and alone, unsure and unloved.

I asked him on many occasions if I was right and he denied it every time. He knew I loved, trusted and believed in him so completely that I would accept his promises.

I would never in a million years have called this 'emotional abuse' just the actions of a person desperately trying to cover their tracks. He always said he would have carried on the affair and remained with me, he had no intention of leaving. He only left once I discovered the affair.

I do have very strong feelings for him still, it is very hard to switch off 25+ years, 21 married. It has been suggested that I talk through with him some more the reasons for his actions to enable me to come to terms with it all, but if I mentioned 'gaslighting' or 'abuse' he would be horrified and devastated.

He is not a bad man, he has done terrible things that have hurt me and DC, he understands this and is remorseful, he has chosen a life that doesn't include me and I have to accept this.

Bear in mind that "abuse" means the misuse of power or authority. That makes it easier to name when a parent, boss or teacher abuses their position of authority. The physically strong can intimidate the smaller or weaker by abusing their power to injure the other, professionals can abuse the trust placed in them and so on. When you love someone, you grant them power. Relationship abuse is when one partner misuses the trust & power given to them by the other.

The quote you cited was describing how empathy can become a supply of power, available for misuse. It works like this: He abuses your trust, love and/or relative weakness. He tells you he did it because of some problem. Because you love him, you empathise with him. This provides him with yet more trust for his misuse. It happens again ... and on and on.

Gaslighting can take the form of a deliberate campaign, like in the film - there was a thread here, yesterday, where the husband was telling OP she hadn't eaten what she had for lunch, hiding her things and so on. It can also be done verbally, emotionally, sexually and financially.

Basically, if someone is telling you you're feelings are not what you feel or your senses are giving you incorrect information: it's gaslighting. It's intended to keep you off balance, while still affording yet more power & trust in the perpetrator.

It is entirely deliberate.
That's the shocking thing, which is so hard to get your empathetic head around.