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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just learning about emotional abuse and not sure if DP is an abuser

56 replies

madonnawhore · 25/05/2010 22:20

Hello,

This is my first post here, so be gentle! I've been lurking for a few months and have been impressed with how wise, supportive and knowledgeable you all are. Reading some of the threads on here has certainly been an education for me and it's raised a lot of questions in my head about my relationship. The 'What Would You Do' thread in particular really set off a few alarm bells but I would appreciate an outsider's point of view on my situation as I'm really not sure if I'm being oversensitive.

I'll try and make sense(!) and make this as short as poss. Basically DP and I have been together for 8 years, no kids as yet. For most of those 8 years we have been in some kind of state of crisis - breaking up, getting back together, etc. He can be very controlling, and is quite intolerant of other people's weaknesses or annoying idiosyncrasies, especially mine. He's very rational and logical so arguing with him is difficult and I always find myself getting muddled. Eventually it gets twisted round so that I end up apologising even if I was the one who was originally upset with him.

I have a pretty important, well paid job, two university degrees, certainly not the sort of person you'd call a doormat, but sometimes I do feel controlled by him and like I have to compromise myself to keep the peace.

We've been through a particularly horrible time just recently and our relationship was dangling on a thread. We've both had some very frank discussions about what we'd like the other to work on changing in order for us to move forward and I think we're moving into a better place. I told him I think he can be cruel and controlling and emotionally distant and he told me that I handle criticism really badly and overreact to things too easily. I think he has a point, I've caught myself disproportionately overreacting to situations a couple of times recently and although I haven't managed to stop myself in time, I do now have an insight into how my behaviour affects him and our relationship.

The thing is, writing it down now, I can see that he's still essentially putting the blame on me. Saying I can't handle criticism and that I overreact is a handy way of shirking his own responsibility isn't it? I know he isn't perfect, but I definitely have things I need to sort out too (shit childhood with addict mother, etc) that mean I can be difficult to live with.

I suppose I'm asking whether I'm in a difficult relationship because we're both quite flawed and sometimes difficult personalities, or is he an emotional abuser and am I just in denial about it? I've read all the links that have been posted about emotional abuse by other mnetters in relevant threads and although a couple of things ring true about him, most of it definitely doesn't.

Am I reading things into my situation that aren't there? Would appreciate some different perspectives.

Thanks for making it to the end of my essay!

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 26/05/2010 07:13

Don't feel any sense of guilt about the last 8 years

Throwing more years away on this man will just leave you in the same (or worse, as your strength ebbs...) situation and won't validate what went before. Pride is a very destructive emotion in this context...

I suspect that when you start opening up to your friends, they will have been worried about you

This facade you think you have managed to keep up will be transparent to those who love you...don't think that they will not have noticed how he treats you

You are an intelligent woman...don't get trapped here....only much unhappiness lies ahead

Bobbalina · 26/05/2010 07:31

Having kids in this relationship would be a misery, surely?

You deserve better and being only 30 gives you loads of time to find a happy supportive relationship.

Move On and enjoy your life

mollybob · 26/05/2010 07:37

Thirty is really not old - I have just had a baby at 38! The most important thing is to have your babies with a good partner - you and they deserve that. Good luck

SolidGoldBrass · 26/05/2010 09:28

Yes, get rid now. You don't have children with this knob so you need never, ever have any contact him again
ANd do take this one lesson with you when you leave: couple-relationships are not compulsory. If you engage in them, it should be because they make you happy and make your life better. If a relationship is one long struggle then it is crap, dump the man and move on - and never, ever believe that it's better to be in a rotten or even a just-about-adequate couple relationship than to be single. Being single is great.

madonnawhore · 26/05/2010 10:17

This is all really useful, thank you ladies. As I said, and I have had a lot of very frank and open chats about what's wrong in our relationship and he does seem to be taking responsilbility for his personality defects. Lately I can see him trying really really hard to check himself if he says something that might come across as mean and I'm touched and encouraged by the effort he's making.

However, I just wonder whether it's too little too late. If he's stressed out he gets mean and snappy very quickly and I can't trust him to consider my feelings.

Last night we were having a stupid conversation about people we get told we look like and he said "Someone told me the other day that I look like that bloke I hate from that programme." So I said jokingly, "Which one? You hate a lot of people", which is true, he's always saying things like 'so and so on the telly is a moron', he 'can't fucking stand whats-his-name', etc, and we often joke about his malevolence (although sometimes it's directed at real life people like waiters or people in call centres and then it's not so funny, but I digress). Anyway, after I said that, he looked really hurt againa nd went all quiet and said, "You must have a really low opinion of me". I felt so bad, so I apologised and told him I didn't mean to make him feel upset, I was just being lighthearted, but he turned his back on me and went to sleep without saying anything.

This morning he brought me a cup of tea in bed though, and was a bit...sheepish. So I don't know if this is as close an admission to culpability or an apology as I'm going to get??

Maybe I shouldn't have made that dig at him. It was quite passive aggressive of me wasn't it?

OP posts:
ItsGraceAgain · 26/05/2010 10:59

No, it wasn't.

ItsGraceAgain · 26/05/2010 11:05

I'm trying really hard not to keep posting but ...

Have you noticed how you've become unable to be yourself? You're triple checking every word you utter, in case the words you choose aren't exactly the right ones (according to him). You can't make a throwaway joke with your own partner.

May I offer one piece of advice? Stop thinking for him. Stop second-guessing him; stop understanding his feelings for him; stop anticipating his wishes. He's a grown-up and so are you. Give your attention to yourself for a change. Whenever you find yourself thinking "What will he want for supper, what will he feel about XYZ ... " change it round to "What do I want for supper" and so on.

Try it for a couple of weeks, and see how you feel.

Katisha · 26/05/2010 11:46

ALso, these things go in cycles. You will probably get a period of him trying hard and
then this will start to wear off and you are back to walking on eggshells with regard to the language you are allowed to use. Then it will escalate again. You will back down, blaming yourself and giving him the benefit of the doubt, and also wanting to maintain the status quo. And round it goes again. It's classic and well-documented.

madonnawhore · 26/05/2010 12:04

Wow, Grace I honestly hadn't thought of it like that. I know it must seem like I'm missing really obvious things here but when it's your own life you can't see the wood for the trees.

Katisha, I know you're right but I guess everytime we go through a 'making an effort' patch I kid myself into thinking it will last. I used to do the same with my mother when she would get clean for a few weeks and every time she fell off the wagon I'd be as devastated as if it was the first time.

I'm stuck in a weird loop. Honestly, this place has been such an eye opener. I'm thinking about things so differently now, it's going to take me a while to process it all.

OP posts:
Katisha · 26/05/2010 12:16

Yes indeed. It's not an overnight process. And it may be hard to leave him, If he is a narcissist he will have all sorts of persuasive reasons why you should stay with him. The one I knew would keep having crises which only his partner could solve, ultimately ending in the predictable suicide threats...It took her a long time to realise that it was all crap (even though he believed it himself, and this is the difficult part - they do believe their own versions of reality and you cannot get through to them long-term.)

Anyway - it may not come to that. But you do have the insight and the power to break the loop sooner or later.

AnyFucker · 26/05/2010 13:31

cycle of abuse

diddl · 26/05/2010 13:55

I think as you are trying to be who he wants you to be rather than who you are then that´s not right tbh.

As for being 30-that´s how old I was when I met my husband.

We got engaged the next year, married the next, baby 1 the next year, baby 2 the next!

newnamethistime · 26/05/2010 14:06

MH

my set up is similar to yours. (except now married with 3 dc). I've got the degree,PhD, feminist credentials etc. It took me a long time to work out what was happening. Now we are both in therapy and I have found it very helpful. Yes, my H was emotionally abusive (and verbally and occasionally physically), but there was some reason for why I was putting up with it. Obviously I had dreadful self-esteem, but my lack of understanding of boundries made things worse. I ended up being totally confused as to what was right or wrong. I was feeling incredibly angry and resentful over something, but at the same time feeling that I was just a selfish cow who thought only about herself. This made me essentially powerless as I could not stand up for myself with conviction.
I'm learning to distinguish now between what is acceptable and what isn't and I express myself very differently or try to at least(I was/am pretty passive/aggressive). H's reaction now is different too as he has gotten some insight into why he was treating us the way he was (via his own weekly therapy).
At the same time, I'm trying to face my demons (separation anxiety stuff). I know now that these issues are the reason for why I put up with so much rubbish for so long and probably why I 'couldn't' just leave.

madonnawhore · 26/05/2010 14:17

Thank you newname, a lot of things in your post resonate with me - the lack of understanding of boundaries, separation issues (DEFINITELY), passive aggression... I know exactly what you mean about failing to stand up for yourself with conviction. When he tells me I'm selfish and inconsiderate, part of me sees that there's a kernel of truth in that and so I find it hard to defend myself because he'll just present me with evidence of how I'm selfish or 'unthiking'

OP posts:
Katisha · 26/05/2010 14:22

Sounds like he's pretty keen to point out your failings and you are humble enough to take that on.
But doesn't sound like he has much intention of looking into his own soul...
Just be wary - what he perceives to be faults in you could merely be characteristics that he finds inconvenient in his desire to be in control.

AnyFucker · 26/05/2010 14:24

There is no reason on this earth for you to stay with someone who makes you feel like shit

None that makes any sense, that is

Think with your head, not your heart

Trinab75 · 26/05/2010 14:59

Hi MW,

I am 35 this year and just breaking free from what I have very recently realised is an abusive relationship.

I was just approaching 30 when I started having serious doubts about his character, values, attitudes, beliefs etc.

I ended our relationship following a horrible argument and moved on with my life feeling much happier and free. I was suckered back into it after a few months all the while knowing in my heart of hearts it felt wrong. I ignored my gut feeling and blamed myself for being hard to please,selfish,boring and afraid of commitment.

We then got engaged, got a new house,had a 2nd baby, all the things I felt I should be doing at 30, but this all happened centered around a rotten/superficial relationship......fast forward 5 years of turmoil and we are back to square one.

As these types of men drain you of all your emotional and mental resources, the longer you leave it the harder it gets. These last 5 years have eaten away at so much of me, some days I could hardly lift my head up.

I wish I could have the years back I wasted on this black hole of a relationship and have been able to truly enjoy the pleasure of pregnancy and having young children.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for. xx

mathanxiety · 26/05/2010 15:10

There's a certain amount of selfishness and lack of consideration in everyone, though. The difference between a narcissist, for instance, and everyone else, is that everyone else can realise that (as you do) and accept the need to apologise occasionally to someone else.

A narcissist, on the other hand, uses something normal as a magician uses a balloon -- blows it up beyond all proportion and distorts it into any shape he wants, while unseen by the audience he accomplishes the aim of draining you of all capacity for resistance.

The little voice inside you that thinks you're not really being the most selfish and unthinking and inconsiderate person in the universe is your alarm bell trying to tell you that you are in danger of being crushed completely. You sense that you are being turned into a satellite of your H.

madonnawhore · 26/05/2010 15:11

Trina I'm so sorry to hear that and I hope you are doing better now. I wish you all the best for you and your DCs in the future.

Your situation sounds similar to mine - my gut instinct is screaming at me that this is wrong but I keep making excuses and waiting for it to get better. I'm realising now that it won't and even though I really do want children I'm so glad we don't have any because it would be so much harder.

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 26/05/2010 15:21

MW: I get the impression that you have had a difficult person in the family in your upbringing. This may be what has made you feel on a fairly deep level that it's your job and your duty to kind of 'love someone better' and that this man matters more than you, that you must placate and obey him.
This is NOT TRUE. He;s a dick and if he ends up alone, that's his fault and his problem.
You can't fix him, so it's time to concentrate on yourself. You don't have children to worry bout, so dump the loser and start enjoying your own life. (If the family member with problems is still draining you as well, think about reducing contact with that person, too.)

madonnawhore · 26/05/2010 15:42

Spot on SGB, although the family member you refer to is dead now, so still working through that and slowly coming to terms with the fact that they, too were incredibly emotionally abusive to me when they were alive. I feel a lot of impotent rage about that, but that's a whole other thread.

I've decided I'm going to leave the country for a couple of months and give myself some space to think. This might sound sudden but it's actually been in the pipeline for a while. It was going to be something I was doing 'within the relationship' iyswim, but I think that before I go I'm going to say to him that I'm going to use the time to seriously think about whether I want to continue it at all.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 26/05/2010 16:30

Bring the Patricia Evans book with you, and you might like to look at the author Lundy Bancroft as well.

madonnawhore · 26/05/2010 16:33

Yes seen those two authors mentioned a few times now, thanks mathanxiety, think they will definitely be worth checking out by the sounds of it.

I really thought he was my future forever so will have to do a lot of 360 thinking to come to terms with a life without him. It's like grieving a death all over again except this time I'm kind of voluntarily putting myself through the process.

OP posts:
ItsGraceAgain · 26/05/2010 16:42

It is grief The death of a certain set of hopes & dreams can be just as distressing as the loss of a loved person. I'm glad to hear you're taking a 'mental health break', MW - hope you're going somewhere lovely! x

QSnondomicile · 26/05/2010 16:44

Relationships should not be so much hard work! And if it really is so much hard work, how well suited are you?

You have spent 8 years so far, how many years should it take, for the two of you to mould together to become a nice fit? How much of YOU would have to give? And how much concession would HE make?

Whether he is controlling, manipulative, abusive, I dont know, but he sure as hell does not sound like a nice person at all! Not somebody to spend your life with? He seems to pick on you a lot, fgs!

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